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Author Topic: form check  (Read 1071 times)

Offline gringol

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form check
« on: October 28, 2012, 10:34:00 PM »
I could use a little help with my form.  I'm shooting ok, but I'd like to get better.

Sorry for the shaky camera work...my wife had her hands full...

 

 
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Offline gringol

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Re: form check
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2012, 05:24:00 PM »
Ttt
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Offline moebow

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Re: form check
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2012, 06:09:00 PM »
gringol,

Sorry, was going to reply sooner but got distracted with other "stuff."  Overall, your form looks pretty good, I like your bow arm side pretty well.  The only thing I would recommend you work on is that you are not getting any back tension on the string side.  See how your string hand flips out and down on your shots?

This tells me that you are pulling the bow just with your arm and when the tension is released, the arm muscles are causing the "flip."  You might try to relax your entire string arm and pull only with the back of your shoulder and your back.  Have you tried a formaster?  That will give you a great feel for a correct draw.  For me, when I draw correctly, it kind of feels like I am leaning back against a wall as the arms come to full draw position.

Arne
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Offline gringol

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Re: form check
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2012, 06:31:00 PM »
hmmm.  That's a tough one, Arne.  I have no idea what back tension feels like.  It doesn't feel like I'm pulling with my arm, but I'll take your word for it.  I've attended the "grip it 'n rip it" shooting school, so it sounds like a formaster may be in order.  Thanks for the input.
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Offline moebow

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Re: form check
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 06:50:00 PM »
As an experiment, stand with your back against the wall with just a slight lean back towards the wall.  Now, see if you can do a one shoulder blade push away from the wall.  To do this, you need to pull your shoulder back which in turn pushes your shoulder blade out and it presses against the wall.

That is the movement you are looking for.

There are some threads around that show how to make a homemade formaster.  The idea of this contraption is to draw the bow with your elbow.  In order to do that, you must use your back.

Arne
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Offline gringol

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Re: form check
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2012, 06:44:00 PM »
Ok, if I understand you correctly, proper back tension is basically squeezing the shoulder blades toward each other?  I tried shooting like that and it was a disaster.  I also whipped up a formaster with some webbing and paracord and tried drawing the bow with that, and I can't feel any difference.  What am I missing here?

I'm starting to think this may be something to tackle after the hunting season ends...
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Offline skilonbw

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Re: form check
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2012, 06:55:00 PM »
I think if you use the formmaster right when you release you should have your string arm hold still or go backwards. Also when try a new technique I have found it takes several correct reps to remove the groove of the old and to notice a difference. For me I found for my size a formmaster did not work well so I use a bunggee cord 1/4"thick and make a loop and practice my technique in a mirror to watch myself.
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Offline moebow

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Re: form check
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2012, 07:09:00 PM »
No, you are not squeezing the shoulder blades together.  You are just using the string side shoulder blade.  Have you looked at my videos?  Youtube -- "TheMoebow1"

Arne
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Online Terry Green

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Re: form check
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2012, 08:54:00 PM »
Look at the form clock thread.....the part about 'closing the door'....that will give you an idea.
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Online Terry Green

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Re: form check
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2012, 08:59:00 PM »
After watching the clip....make sure you check out the 'J' part of the draw...you need to complete the 'J' draw motion.
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Offline gringol

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Re: form check
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2012, 07:39:00 AM »
I checked out moe's vids again and the form clock, and it looks like the motion of the J isn't actually completed during the draw, but after release.  Do I have this right?
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Online Terry Green

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Re: form check
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2012, 09:31:00 AM »
Nope...the J completed BEFORE release....your elbow needs to be behind the arrow....not out to the side.
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Offline gringol

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Re: form check
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2012, 07:51:00 PM »
Is it possible to acheive proper alignment without back tenion/completing the J?  The video clips I posted don't show it well, but I think my alignment is pretty close.  Here's one more clip that might help you.  I slowed it down a bit...

 

You all know far more about this than I do, but I'm having trouble visualizing what I need to do with my string arm.  I definitely see the "flip" of my hand that Arne refered to...
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Online Terry Green

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Re: form check
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2012, 08:30:00 AM »
If you want to get your elbow behind the arrow,....the J motion has to be made.

I'll check out your clips in a bit....
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Offline skilonbw

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Re: form check
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2012, 04:08:00 PM »
To me it looks like you are pulling around with your arm more than your shoulder blades. have you tried to without the bow to squeeze your shoulder blades together. When I took a lesson from the coach he had me feel the motion in the inner lower i.e rounded portion of the blade this made sense to me which is similar to Terry describing closing the door. It took me several times of practicing this before it felt right to where I do not get tired after shooting for 2 hours like I used to when using my arms to draw the bow.
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Offline gringol

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Re: form check
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2012, 05:06:00 PM »
Thanks for the input, Kirk.  I see the motion that ya'll are refering to with the shoulder blade (Arne has some great vids of that) and I have no problem doing it without the bow.  However, I've tried to get from my current full draw to Arne's shoulder blade motion and it feels super awkward and downright unhealthy.  Like a monkey f...you get the idea...

Maybe it's time to get some in-person coaching...
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Offline skilonbw

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Re: form check
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2012, 05:38:00 PM »
You know after watching all the videos I could including the masters of barebow and reading on here. I went to the local archery store and talked to a JOAD coach and paid them to coach me outside of the shop so I was exposed to the method that moebow advocates. It helped to have someone walk me through the sequence in person and this helped a lot. Mostly with correct draw form and where I should feel the motion. It even helped with my release too. I of course adapted this to a swing draw instead of just holding the bow in front of me. He was then one who even showed me how to practice with a bungee at home to feel the same motion. Hope you find a good coach to work with.
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Offline moebow

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Re: form check
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2012, 06:19:00 PM »
Gringol,

The motion (any NEW motion for that matter) takes some getting used to -- no doubt about that!  As skilonbw mentions, getting the correct feel and motion is NOT something that is easy to describe in typed words.  I would think that you could find a coach in your area that could help you one on one.  

That is ALWAYS a better way to go than trying to read and understand the typed word.

Your comments above are normal, it does feel "strange" in the beginning but it IS a way to draw that reduces long term injury and is really very much stronger and more repeatable.

Arne
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Online Terry Green

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Re: form check
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2012, 08:36:00 PM »
You might also be a bit over bowed to complete the J....if you keep working at it...it will come...with strength and technique.
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