What am I doing wrong?!

[FarmerMarley]

Hey guys,

I have been playing around with some different hunting setups and recently started shooting my predator recurve more after a long run with my Whip LB.

Even before I did much work tuning arrows to the Predator I seemed to be shooting it better than my Whip. HOWEVER, I began to notice wear on the outside edge of the shelf (the corner). At first I thought it was from the feathers but then I started to notice a green smudge from the arrow decal.

I tried solving this problem with many possible tuning solutions (changing brace height, nock point, spine, etc.) Even with an elevated feather rest I was still getting the marks on the edge of the shelf!! I'm not sure if it is on every shot but it is at least 1 in 3 or so.

Now I am pretty sure it is a form issue that I have developed in the last couple months. In Masters of the Bare Bow Vol 2 the Black Widow guy does a good segment on bareshaft tuning. In it he mentions a form problem that some people have that causes the same symptoms that I am seeing.

It must be on my drawing side. String hand pointer finger pushing on nock from above or elbow too high are my main suspects.

What do you form masters think of my self-diagnosis? Any other ideas?

What measures can I take?(I don't currently have a camera setup but I know that filming the shot would be the best training).

Thanks guys!
I really want to get this fixed because it is having bad effects on my BH flight.

[moebow]

FM,  sounds like you have checked the "mechanical" parts; so I would agree that there might be a form problem.  SOMETIMES string angle at full draw can cause a release problem or make us use more tension in the string hand and wrist than we think we are.

Have you tried really keeping your sting and bow forearm/wrist/hand as relaxed  as possible?  Many times when I work with someone with the symptoms you describe that fixes it.  We can get to a point where a combination of too tight a grip on the bow and too much tension on the string side work in combination to cause the strike on the shelf.  This can be hard to isolate because it can be a combination of both. Try to let the bow do its job without you interfering with it.

See if this is something that might help.

Arne

[McDave]

You may be correct in your diagnosis, but if so, the root cause is probably a step back from that. If you are drawing the bow with your back muscles, such that your forearm and hand are relaxed, except for the hook in your fingers, and if you're holding the bow with a loose enough grip that the bow handle can move to align itself with the forces acting on it, then the bow and arrow will naturally align themselves with the force of your string hand pulling back and your bow hand pushing forward.  There should be no forces acting in any direction other than straight back and straight forwards, which should eliminate problems like your index finger pushing down on the nock automatically, and a lot of other problems that could otherwise be difficult to identify.

[moebow]

McDave,  Are you a long lost brother that I didn't know about??            
Arne

[McDave]

Hopefully our different takes on the same thought (which we are often composing at the same time!) will help the meaning to come through.

[FarmerMarley]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies guys,
That's funny how you both responded at virtually the same time.

After posting, I took the bow out again and rubbed the shelf clean of all marks. This time I really focused my attention on my form during the shot. I focused on getting an even string placement in my tab and a relaxed wrist (as per Moebow's video). I also tried to make sure that my elbow was not cocked upwards.

As it turns out the marks were not registering and I was shooting 8" groups including bareshafts at 20yds. It seemed that if I consciously focused on my form and didn't get sloppy the issue was resolved.

I think the problem is that I have not been doing much practice focused on form in the last couple months (no blank bale which I used to do at the beginning of every practice session). I think my form must have drifted.

Part of the problem perhaps is that I developed a habit of drawing slightly upwards into my anchor at the end of my draw. I think this helped me somewhat getting back tension but I think the alignment of the string forearm-elbow often ended up off.

I will do some more tests tomorrow and post the results. Thanks for the help guys!!

[xtrema312]

I have had fits with this for years.  I shot fine most of the time, but I would get the edge of shelf wear on the rest.  I could get in real tuning issues if something was off just a little, and I was not getting the right bounce off the shelf.  One great tool for me was white electrical tape over the edge of the shelf.  Shows a rub very quick so I could better see what happens with different changes.  

I found three under was not an issue at all.  It had to be something in my draw or string hand.  Finally, this winter i decided to change to three under, and I started shooting blind and close bail in December with some longer shots mixed in. No more issue with shelf contact.  However, my brain is having a hard time adjusting to elevation.   I keep being locked in low.  I went to the Kalamazoo expo last weekend and lost track of how many arrows shaved pit hair on the 3D deer.  A couple weeks ago I tried to go back to split and was surprised that I could not find my anchor and get shooting split to feel right at all.  I was all out of whack already.  3 under is more vertical and better alignment for sure for me.  For the last few days, I have been working to gain back a good anchor shooting split.  I am getting it slow but sure.  I am trying to keep everything about shooting 3 under in form and it is real different I am sure to what I was doing before shooting split.  

So I guess my point is try the tape as a tool and it is not that hard to have a change come along and get you all messed up. It I also sometimes hard to tell what you are doing wrong when it feels so natural.  

I plan to post soon also to check my form issue to help figure out my issue as I decide if I just stay 3 under or go back to my preference of split.

[FarmerMarley]

Thanks extrema, your post and your situation is helpful. As it turns out I have managed to fix the rub issue for the most part. I think that shifting more towards a deeper hold with my string (in the crease of all 3 fingers) has been the main thing that helped. Before I was in the crease of my top finger and outside of the crease with the bottom too, so I was angling it.

What I have found, is that despite the uneven pressure on the string that was probably causing the wear on the shelf, this string hold gave me a pretty good release. Now that I am in the crease of all fingers and applying more even pressure on the string I am shooting much worse!! I thought I was doing alright at first but now I realize I am really inconsistent. I think I am having trouble releasing the string in a smooth way. My fingers get kindof hung up or something.

It is pretty frustrating. I went outside yesterday and could barely group my arrows. I;m so glad I don't have any big hunts planned soon.

It really amazes me how much of a journey archery form is! I'm really trying to just appreciate the journey and not get disappointed that I;m shooting worse right now.

Moral of the story for me is to always keep form practice (blank bale etc) as an integral part of my daily routine. If I just practice hunting type shots at different yardages without attention to form, I can start drifting away from good form...

[Fishburglar]

WHEN YOUR READY TO LET THAT ARROW GO, JUST RELAX YOUR FINGERS. DONT TRY AND MOVE THEM DONT THINK, JUST RELAX THEM, AND THE STRING WILL ROLL OFF OF YOUR FINGERS AND MOVE YOUR FINGERS OUT OF THE WAY. I SLIGHTLY OPEN AS I RELAX.AND STEADY BOW ARM.

[Jock Whisky]

I've seen this before. Try shooting cock feather in. May be that is all it takes.

JW