3 under....I hit left

[Tatonka17]

I've decided to switch to 3 under after hearing so much positive about Rich Welchs class. I'm shooting fantastic groups, but everything hits to the left about 2-3" at 20 yards. I can't physically draw by anchor hand any closer into my face. Anyone taken Ricks class that can chime in about maybe a different shelf material or something?  Any other tips?  If I focus on the target, I'm getting great flight and groups, but everything's left. Help!

[McDave]

Rick suggests that you use a Martin Rug Rest for strike plate material if you want to move your point of impact to the right.  Another suggestion would be to shoot a slightly stiffer arrow.  I assume a RH shooter.

This assumes that you don't have any form problems, but you seem to have that covered.

[A.S.]

Dittos what McDave said about the Martin rug rest.

Just a note about it. This stuff has a "grain" similar to carpet. One direction will be softer than others. You can actually move your groups by changing the direction the grain is positioned. Basically you would be doing the same thing as backing off the spring tension on a plunger.

I recently made this adjustment on one of my bows. I was consistently hitting right (I'm a lefty). I rotated the side plate material 90 degrees, and my groups literally moved 6" at 20 yards.

Also, your arrows will fly weaker if you make this adjustment.

[ArrowCraCra]

From what I have read if your arrow is striking to the left a number of things could be going on form issues, but if it is a spine issue you will need a weaker spined arrow to move the impact to the right.  Heavier point up front, longer arrow or weaker spine will all help move the arrow right if your form is consistent.

[Tatonka17]

Thanks guys for the suggestion on the side plate material. I'll give it a go. I know my forms not perfect, but my bare shafts hit exactly the same as my fletched arrows out to 20 yards. I'll let you know how it goes.

[McDave]

A weaker spined arrow will move a bare shaft impact to the right.  It has the opposite effect on a fletched arrow.  In other words, a stiffer spined arrow will move the impact of a fletched arrow to the right.  A weaker spined arrow will go through more paradox than a stiffer spined arrow, and leave the bow with the nock end left of the point.  This orientation isn't corrected with a bare shaft as the shaft moves downrange, and causes the bare shaft to impact to the right.  With a fletched arrow, the fletches quickly correct the nock left condition, but the arrow itself has been moved to the left and stays to the left downrange.  Changing to a stiffer shaft will reduce the leftward movement as the arrow leaves the bow, and cause the fletched arrow to impact to the right of an arrow with a weaker shaft.

The effect I described doesn't occur 100% of the time, depending on the differences in spine and how close or far out of tune the arrow was to begin with.  However, it occurs often enough to be a good general rule.

[grouseshooter002]

Before doing anything try going to a heavier point weight. This may help.

Regards,
Grouse

[ArrowCraCra]

Originally posted by grouseshooter002:
Before doing anything try going to a heavier point weight. This may help.

Regards,
Grouse

X2

[Flingblade]

I always assumed direction of impact would be the same for bare shaft or fletched just the amount would be less for the fletched shaft so this is good information.  Thanks McDave. From what McDave said a heavier point weight will further weaken the shaft and cause it to impact further left.  A lighter point weight or shortening the shaft will stiffen the shaft and move the impact to the right.  McDave, am I reading this correctly?

[McDave]

Generally speaking, yes.

First I read this in Fred Asbell's book, and I thought it was a typo.  Then I heard the same thing from Terry Green, and had a short discussion with him offline about the possible causes for the reverse effect.  Then in a class with Rick Welch last week, he demonstrated it for me when he moved the impact of another student's arrow to the right by using a lighter point and stiffening the shaft.

Fletched arrows are funny, and you have to experiment for yourself. Just another idea to try.

[SAVIOUR68]

IMO ,Cody after reading your responses with bare shafts and fletched arrows sounds like they are good for your set up. Now the most overlooked issue that I have seen is not form or arrow spine due to yours grouping the same. My question is were do YOU anchor on your face and is the arrow close to being under your eye. Lots of people that try Mr Welchs method actually over draw to the side of there face when they set there arrows up which will cause a left impact for a right hand shooter. Changing the side plate or shelf material will only cause tuning issues if all is already tuned. Try to get a string BLUR with your dominant eye at anchor. Good luck Bro.

[ArrowCraCra]

McDave that is interesting and something I will experiment with on my own.  The resources I have available to me on tuning all suggest that left hits with a right handed shooter/good form could be a stiff spine issue resolved by weakening it.  This is the same for bare arrows and arrows with fletch/broadhead combos.  

I would suggest tuning your arrows with a standard guide like this:

 http://www.eastonarchery.com/img/downloads/software/tuning_guide.pdf

It has been time tested and a standard for getting your setup to shoot well.

Keep us updated

[SAVIOUR68]

McDave is correct that different rest/shelf material will cause different impact points on your intended target and can also be used to fine tune you arrow set up instead of changing arrow length/point weight.

[ursusmajor]

Is it possible that since its a new switch that u r 'peeking'? If u r right handed and pull ur head to the left to 'peek' at the arrow flight it will send ur arrow left. Try keeping ur head tucked in there. Just a thought.

[Brianlocal3]

McDave, that info you posted is fantastic. Albeit opposite of EVERYTHING I have ever read before, but I have seriously messed up my head over some left impacts before and went to extremes to correct it using conventional tuning methods, so for grind I just grabbed some arrows that should be too weak for my bow but consistently hit left and I Stiffened them up and guess what............ I'm hitting center mass.  Who would have thunk it? Thanks

[Brianlocal3]

Also what confuses me some is that my rest material is the same thin leather as my grip, so if i used a rug rest (much thicker ) I'd expect a more left shot, but your saying it would actually bring my shots to the right? It's almost opposite of what I would expect. Can you explain how that works?

[McDave]

When the arrow is released, it initially bends inward toward the bow and comes in contact with the strike plate.  Any strike plate causes the arrow to rebound away from the bow.  A relatively non-yielding strike plate, such as a thin piece of plain leather, causes the arrow to rebound further away from the bow to the left than a soft strike plate such as a Martin Rug Rest.  The relative thickness of the Martin Rug Rest doesn't matter because it gets compressed by the rebounding arrow shaft anyway, but it does provide a cushion that results in less of a rebound.

[Brianlocal3]

Thanks for the clarification

[glass76]

Great thread with lots of good info. Thanks to all who posted.

[Siewho]

Great post and discussions.