In defense of Fred Asbell

[LongStick64]

I've had a real turn around in my shooting, a real epiphany. My shooting for the last year has been horrible to the extent of embarrassing where I was seriously thinking of hunting with the compound and not my beloved longbows. There were a combination of things going on and all of it was a direct result of the trying something new syndrome. Where I should of been satisfied with my shooting I was trying to find a way to get even better. Not a bad thing but I really confused my form. To the point that I developed target panic from the constant rewiring of my thought process. One day speaking to Joel Turner and trying a clicker and I knew I was messed up. And it was all about the sight picture becoming my trigger. See I was pre aiming, aiming while I was drawing and aiming while I was at anchor. Simple fix I was aiming too much that I was building anxiety.
I decided I really am not a clicker guy but I will use it as a strength builder and training aid when I need to.
I decided to go back to how I always felt comfortable shooting, something similar to how I have watched Dean Torges, Gary Davis and Fred Asbell. Yes I use a swing draw but the important factor is that I do not set my sight picture until I am at anchor. So I don't think about aiming until the very end. It has greatly reduced my anxiety on the line and has me focused on good form execution, balanced rhythm and aim when I finalize my sight picture set.
It's a bit in reverse of what Joel teaches but I think it is what is missing from what I have tried to interpret from Fred Asbell. For me Fred's style is very close to what I feel is the most comfortable way to shoot. But it wasn't until I put the sight picture at the end of the cycle that I really took off on. By using the swing draw, you eliminate a reference for you mind to use to start aiming, all you can do is focus on getting your form completed as you establish the sight picture without being engrossed in it.
I know we all have our ways, just keep shooting straight.

[Jock Whisky]

Aiming in whatever form you do it is only one of several steps in the "shot sequence." It has its place but so do the other steps. We can't forget them. They are ALL important

I was in the same boat you were but when I started giving each of the steps their due, and used proper back tension the results were amazing. I still have my moments but when I follow the steps I'm shooting a lot better.

Good luck

[LongStick64]

I may agree with you on the crouching not being elemental to the shot but the rest of his shot sequence is easily repeatable.

[NBK]

Peter, I've followed a course similar to yours in that my eagerness to learn and shoot better had me trying many differing techniques.  Started with Asbell's books and video, then MBB's, Rick Welch's, etc. and now have come back to a style more reminiscent of Asbell again.  I bashed him in one thread several years ago, blaming him for my TP and that his shooting style was terrible for a beginner because how could it ever be consistent?  Well, having a bit more experience now I'm eating crow because yes it can be consistent and deadly in the field.  

In regards to it being a "crap and crouch" style I'll retort in saying that I rarely have the luxury of assuming a "proper" upright stance when I'm hunting.

[LongStick64]

Mike, sounds like we traveled the same road !!!

[McDave]

One of the joys I've had from archery is experiencing different styles.  My journey has also been similar to Mike's.  One of the thing's I've recently discovered is that archery is not really comparable with a Chinese smorgy.  It's not really that good of an idea to put a spoonfull of something out of one pot onto your plate, and a spoonfull of something else out of another. People like Fred Asbell, Rick Welch, and Rod Jenkins have spent their lives developing their own particular styles, and have come up with something that works well for them and those who follow them.  Before you dismiss someone's style as being worthless, you should be sure you fully understand it.  I recently had that epiphany with Rick's style, and if I went back and studied Fred's style again, it is possible that a new light might click on there too.  At least keep an open mind about it; there may be something you think you know about someone's style that you're actually borrowing from someone else's, or just made up yourself.

[jonsimoneau]

I'm pretty much with McDave on this one.  But I have adopted things from a number of archers.  Most notably for sure it Rick Welch, and Trish Ferrera from Masters of the barebow volume 1. My main concern is bowhunting.  I believe for sure that target archery and bowhunting are related but are different sports. As an example, string walking is highly effective in target archery, but is certainly not something I would want to mess with when a rutting buck is moving through my lane at a fast walk.  If I could shoot with the style that Terry does, and be as accurate as he is, you can bet I would! But I cant do it.  So I take what I can from good archers, tweak it a bit and make my own style.  It has served my pretty well in the bowhunting woods.

[Bear Heart]

When I started shooting I read everything I could get my hands on.  Pretty soon I had a head full of conflicting ideas on how to shoot. Or so I thought.
What I had really done is put the cart before the horse.  I had tried to master a style before I cemented my form.
If I am pushing, pulling, anchoring,...... I will hit my target.  My misses will be limited to high or low when shooting outside of my practiced yardage.

[Bladepeek]

I realize this may be a bit off-topic, but I think it's relevant. I'm still a babe in the woods when it comes to archery, but I'm learning.

I've been coaching youth shotgunners for some time. A lot of them come in with some style they've seen that they think is cool. I always tell them to start with a basic style that has proven to work for the majority of shooters. Develop their abilities to the point they are consistently breaking birds. Only then, should they start working on a personal stance/style.

It seems to work well that way. Our intermediate team (6th to 8tyh graders) are the 2013 national champions at the SCTP finals at Sparta, IL.

I don't take credit for that, since the kids themselves did it and I am only an assistant coach. Still, I really believe in the process. One of the boys has developed a style that works well for him and is quite different from the style I was teaching him. He was breaking 100 straights before he changed, though.

I think it's the same with archery. When I get to the point I don't dare shoot two arrows at the same spot, I will probably play around and find something that really rings my bell. 'Till then, I'm content to focus on practicing a perfect release with a good, solid form to rely on.

[Bluegoose]

I studied Fred Asbells style years ago and shot pretty much as well as I wanted to back then. Was a good shot on game. When I picked the bow back up after a dozen years or so, I decided to work strictly on the push/pull method of drawing even though it has the bow and arrow up in your line of sight throughout the shot sequence. I've got this down fairly well out to about 15 yards now. At 20 yard I'm OK, but 25 to 30 yards I'm doing some kind of secondary vision gap shooting thing that I don't quite understand. Its only so so. I was thinking of switching to a more intentional gap shooting method from 20 yards on out. I'm a little worried about getting too many changes going at once, even though my form and the push pull instinctive draw are looking OK at hunting distances. Does anyone have trouble when switching from purely instinctive to gap shooting? I'm particularly concerned that I might get stuck between the two at between 20 and 25 yards.

[twistedlim]

I am a firm believer in Fred's method (while disregarding the squat).  I am "aiming" as I draw and when I release it is when my "computer" tells me to.  It is just experience that makes use better.  As far as shooting beyond 25 yards.  You can have it.  I do not worry about it since I will not shoot game beyond 22-23 yards where I feel very confident.  
There are lots of methods out there. Go to a big shoot or show and look at the different styles.  We are like golfers.(have you ever seen Jim Furyk swing a golf club?) Everyone seems to have there own little hitches but the basics are the same and practice and consistancy are paramount.

[reddogge]

Opps just noticed this thread was an old one.