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Author Topic: Split vision  (Read 1292 times)

Offline Dustin Waters

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Split vision
« on: September 17, 2013, 01:52:00 PM »
Im sure the basics of the topic have been covered before, but in the interest of saving a little time doing the search and sifting through a bunch of responses, I thought I would ask.

I have been trying to teach myself this method of shooting.  I am a mathematician by trade and would love to add a little more insurance to my style of shooting.  I know that at 10 yards by gap is 17" and at 20 yards it is 26"  At 30 yards it is 27" and at 40 yards it is about 19".  If I were to use strictly gap shooting I know with my right eye closed I have to shoot about 12" right of the target and use those gaps to get good results.
Now with the hill split vision style am I still using those same gaps or do I change my gaps to where I see the arrow out of focus with both eyes open?

Offline macbow

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 02:23:00 PM »
I'm not following why your closing your right eye.
Are you shooting left handed and right eye dominant ?

Also your gaps  seem a little confusing.

Both eyes should be open. Without looking at the end of the arrow you should pick it up and it should be centered  and at the distance your gap is. Sounds like you have most of this figured out.

In my opinion gap shoot is great for winning z3 D tournaments.
But for hunting more instinctive aiming works better at least for most guys.
I think as gap shooters get used to gaping most are going more in the instinctive while hunting.
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Offline reddogge

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2013, 04:08:00 PM »
You can gap shoot and cant your bow. Sounds like it needs to be canted so your eye is over the arrow. That may solve the right to left problem.

If you persue gap shooting you will need to reduce your gaps. You can raise your anchor, go to 3 under, shoot a longer arrow or a combination of these. You will need to be in the 25-35 yard point on range or shorter.
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Offline PeteA

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2013, 08:45:00 PM »
Im a gapper. From 15-25 yards my gap is about 24" below the target. I use the same gap for all these ranges. I hit an inch or so high or low depending on the distance. At 10 and 30 my gap is about 18". At 10 yards the arrow is still rising in it's arch trajectory. At 30 it is falling but they tend to hit in the same place. This simplifies things I only need to remember two gaps for 10-30 yards. My point on is 40 yards. I place the arrow tip on a deers hooves for the 24" gap and just below the elbow if you will for 10 and 30. Learned this from a Jimmy Blackmon video on gap shooting. Works great. I shoot split finger with my middle finger as my corn of mouth anchor.
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Offline PeteA

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 04:39:00 PM »
Dustin, tried to send you an e-mail. Let me know if you got it.
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Offline SAVIOUR68

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 06:03:00 PM »
Dustin your gaps should not change, I shoot a gap style now with one eye open only due to poor vision up close and trying to get a precise sight picture. Your aiming 12" to the right worries me that you may be overdrawing to the side of your face. Try to draw to the frt of your face with the arrow under your dominant eye to help this.

Offline Dustin Waters

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2013, 09:44:00 PM »
Pete,
I did not get it.  Not a big deal.  I got out today and figured out that my spot on is right at 40 yards.  10 yards it is about 12 inches. 10-20 it is right around 17-18" and then it starts to move back up to meet the 10 yard gap at 20-30.  Then moves to point on at 40.  I am still using the focus on the target, draw, anchor and then I check to make sure my arrow is under and inline with the impact point.  

What I am finding is that at the longer distances when the targets get smaller I am having a hard time picking out that spot below the target that my arrow should be close to.  In other words my peripheral vision allows the arrow to cover up more of my gap.  Does that make sense?

Offline straitera

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2013, 10:50:00 PM »
Just read again John Schulz's book, "Hittin 'em Like Howard" where he describes Howard's interpretation of split vision. Never really wanted to even try split but John is my hero so what the heck. Unless something remarkable happens soon, deer are safe in my part of the woods this year! I couldn't hit my butt with both hands! This is terrible no kidding! Been working on this for a month or more & it seems to be getting worse. Not sure if I should go back to straight instinctive or not? Anyone else?

Might add, I still do not see my arrow & use my left hand as a marker instead.
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Offline Dustin Waters

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2013, 01:49:00 PM »
I feel like if you took the lateral measurement out of the groups that I am shooting, the groups would be fantastic.  I am basically hitting on the same plane with consistency.  I did notice last night that as I got fatigued the elevation of the shots started to really be effected.  I think just getting back into longbow shape will help that.  
That being said, I was maybe 2-3" high regularly, which I can live with.  Im not trying to win any competitions, just trying to put a clean kill on an animal.

Offline Dustin Waters

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2013, 01:58:00 PM »
Results are coming in and I am beginning to really like this method of shooting.

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Online McDave

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2013, 04:54:00 PM »
You can and should work on taking the lateral measurement out of your gap aiming.  With the arrow located directly under your dominant eye, with good shooting form, and properly tuned arrows, the arrow point should be on a vertical line through the point you want to hit.

Getting the arrow under your dominant eye is probably the easiest of the three to accomplish, as the arrow either is or isn't under your dominant eye, and there are several simple ways to tell if it is or not.

However, even when the arrow is under your dominant eye, there are a number of form errors that can throw the arrow to the left, for a RH shooter, and a few that can throw it to the right.  Most of the errors that throw the arrow to the right, like plucking, are fairly obvious when they happen and usually don't occur repetitively.  Of the many errors that can throw your arrow to the left, some may become ingrained into your shot to the extent that they seem natural and correct.  An example of this would be if you don't quite get to full draw.  The arrow is pointing to the left during your draw and comes around to point toward the target as you reach full draw and your drawing elbow rotates around toward your spine.  If you always stop your draw at 95%, say, of full draw, you will consistently hit to the left and may believe that you should compensate by aiming to the right, thus masking the form error.  I won't bore you with a long list of other things you can do to hit to the left, but you get the idea.

Assuming you have the arrow under your dominant eye, and you are using correct form, you could still miss to the right or the left if your arrows aren't tuned to your bow.  Too stiff or weak arrows for your bow will result in right or left misses even if you're doing everything else right.  Once the arrows are properly tuned for your bow, there are micro adjustments you can make to your strike plate material and/or string silencers to eliminate the last little variations off that vertical line.
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Offline Dustin Waters

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2013, 10:27:00 AM »
Dang it Dave.
I thought I had something good going here.  Now you are telling me I still have a bunch to think about.  

hahaha I guess its back to the range for me.

Online McDave

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2013, 01:59:00 PM »
You DO have something good going here!  Couldn't be better, in fact!
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Offline jonsimoneau

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2013, 07:34:00 PM »
Looking good Dustin.  I have gap shot before but at hunting ranges it just ended up becoming more instinctive after awhile.  After watching Jimmy Blackmons videos I will experiment with it some more after the hunting season.

Offline cahaba

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2013, 01:02:00 PM »
Split vision is not gap shooting. Shooting split vision does not estimate yardage or set gaps. Split vision comes into play if your first shot hits high or low. You have to be conscience of where your arrow was pointing for a follow up shot to be effective. Was you aiming a foot over the animals back or shooting dead center. If you are aware of this you can shoot the follow up by adjusting your next shot higher or lower if you missed the first one. Mr. Schulz talks about follow up shots in Hitt em like Howard Hill. He said one time Howard was shooting at an elk a long distance. His first shot hit low,second shot was over his back and the third was on target hence split vision. Imagine trying to figure out a gap at the range the old timers shot at game.I think most instinctive shooters are aware of where their bow or arrow is in relation to the target. If we wasn't aware follow up shots would be impossible to get on target. IMO
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Offline Pojman

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2013, 07:23:00 PM »
I only hunt stationary targets be they round or 3D so my method might only work for me. When I use a training wheel bow with sights, my right eye focuses on the sight placement while my left eye watches the flight of the arrow. When I shoot a real bow, My left eye (nondominant) focuses on the target. My right eye is open but tends to ignore everything. It does not see the target, riser, or arrow. If I shoot split finger ( like I do with the training wheels) I am all over the place. When I shoot 3 under I am pretty decent out to 40 yards. Working on 60 yards since i will turn 50 in November and can participate in the Senior Games.

Offline Dustin Waters

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2013, 09:49:00 AM »
In response to Cahaba,
So would you call my style more of a gap shooting method.  I think I am more along the lines of instinctive with a dual check system in place.  Do my brain and eyes agree on the location of the shot.  I do think that once I get more arrows in with this method it will slowly melt into pure instinctive, but for now I am shooting the best I have in probably 5 years.
I also wanted to challenge the "follow up shot" idea.  Why would I be concerned with a follow up shot if I can make a good shot first?  Just curious.  I understand back in the day it was considerably different, but in current world hunting, I like to think I can make an excellent shot right off the bat then not have to worry about a follow up.

Offline cahaba

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2013, 11:28:00 AM »
Dustin since you are estimating yardage and gaps by inches I would say you are gap shooting.IMO

The comment about follow up shots was just an example of how split vision works at long range.
Making the first shot should be priority. We modern day hunters set our limits with range that we are effective at. At least we should do that. At my effective hunting range of 20 yards I shoot purely instinctive. Shooting at targets at longer yardage I use split vision. Good luck with your system of shooting.
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Offline ChuckC

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2013, 12:10:00 PM »
I am thinking that the only difference between "gap" shooting and "split vision" is where you are aiming.  Your eyes cannot focus on several spots in different distances all at the same time.

In gap, you look at the point of your arrow and put that point on a target, which is 10", 15" etc UNDER or OVER what you actually want to hit (except at point-on range).  This is described very well in several posts.

In "split vision", you are doing the very same thing, but you are concentrating not on the "target" but on what you are trying to hit, example, the deer's chest.  In the mean time, in your peripheral vision, you still see that arrow point and you see that it is in about the correct position for that shot.

When you are taking long shots, like HH's 150 yard plus shot, you have a target located above the animal, likely you can't even see the animal because it is covered by your bow hand.  

You need to choose a target that works.  Like, the top of that evergreen tree lined up behind the animal, or that rock further up the hill.  If that shot is too short, you pick a farther, higher, taller target, and vice versa for if you shot too high.  

With enough arrows, and good form, you should be able to walk the arrow in, as long as the animal doesn't move, which means starting over with your targets.

With things such as string walking (moving your arrow hand position along the string, to known spots) and face walking (moving your anchor point up and down your face, and by extension, right down your chest), you can greatly expand and fine tune your gap shooting.

With "instinctive", which is just a name,(you don't instinctively know how to do this, but you learn)you are actually using a much coarser style of gap shooting.  You don't actually put the point on anything, and you don't consciously think of range, you just train and learn what the sight picture needs to look like to work for any given shot.

ChuckC

Offline cahaba

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Re: Split vision
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2013, 11:19:00 PM »
Good explanation Chuck. I know I never use the point of the arrow for any aiming. The way I shoot I use more of the plane of the shaft rather than the tip. This is especially effective on follow up shots if my first arrow misses it's mark. I hit a bullseye at 50 yards today on my second shot by being aware of where the arrow was in relation to how it looked on the first shot. The more I practice long distance shooting the better my brain learns to calculate the shot without any thought on yardage. As you said "learning what the sight window needs to look like to work for any given shot. Just like throwing a baseball at a long distance. There is not much need for split vision on close shots of 20 yards and under with my current setup. On those shots I use more of an instinctive approach and am not aware of anything but a small spot I want to hit. My peripheral vision doesn't come into play nearly as much.This is the way I think of split vision. YMMV
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