Thoughts on Target Panic

[Ron Vought]

I have been fighting target panic for months now. My symptom is locking up without coming to full anchor.

I shoot my longbow almost every day. Tried everything in the book and some things did work for a short duration then I go back to the lock up on draw and can't come to full anchor. I noticed that if I get away from shooting for a few days and then come back and only shoot 10-20 arrows I seem to be better in the way of form and accuracy. Thought I was over bowed at 50 pounds but have the same issue with a 40 pounds bow.

Can fatigue from shooting every day actually cause bad form which leads to TP? Maybe we are also just over doing it in an effort to find a solution and succeed???

Ron

[ChuckC]

I am no expert on TP, although I have had it for longer than I care to remember, so maybe I am.

As one who had it, I can say it manifests in many forms.  You might be unable to get the arrow on target.  You might be unable to release when on target.  You might be unable to get the draw all the way back, hold it aim and release (snap shooting).

Maybe too heavy of a bow is an issue, but I doubt it.  I found that I could close my eyes (not be aiming) and pull that bow back and hold it just fine.  Add aiming and it goes to hell.

Not certain WHY you get it.  I don't believe it has anything to do with fear of missing.  I do know that your brain takes over and does this.  It has nothing to do with your muscles being trained or powerful enough.  

I started getting it way back when I was still kinda young at work, high stress job, mind going 100 miles an hour and it started.  I think the stress part sure might have a part in it.

Never did go away until I went to the compound bow with sights and release.  Then I could overcome it, but even then had occasional double clutching of the release.  I didn't like the Compound bow at all, except I could shoot the heck out of it,  and finally came back to a recurve, but also got the TP back.

Lots of folks have lots of fixes.  Maybe they work, but none did for me.  I finally switched to shooting lefty.  I have no TP lefty.  Shoulda done it 30 years ago.

Good luck.

ChuckC

[Ron Vought]

After today's round of poor shooting I have decided to walk away from traditional archery for a while. Target panic has me a mess and my shooting has not improved no matter what drills or methods that I have tried. I can't seem to come to full anchor no matter what so have decided its time for a long break. Maybe I have been over doing it....

Ron

[McDave]

When you say, "My symptom is locking up without coming to full anchor," I interpret that to mean that you draw to a certain point, and then can draw no further, like it would be if you hit a stone wall.  This is different from drawing to a certain point and being compelled to release the arrow before coming to full draw. If I am interpreting your remark correctly, you are not compelled to release the arrow early; you just hit a wall and can't draw it any further.  You could hold it at 3/4 draw (or whatever) if you wanted to, but you couldn't draw it the rest of the way to full draw.

Is this correct?  I think the distinction is important, because the two problems are caused by two entirely different causes.  If I'm interpreting your problem correctly, let me know and I'll continue.  If not, I'll shut up!

[Ron Vought]

Locking up or hitting a wall about 3-4 inches from the corner of my mouth is the symptom. I have this issue only when looking at the target during the drawing process. If I look away from the target while drawing I can come to full anchor however the arrow wants to be released as soon as I reacquire the target which causes poor shot placement. Ideally I would like to watch the target all the way through the draw and anchor process. I do this if I snap shoot but very rarely come to anchor and I normally hit high or low on the target because I am not coming to anchor.

Ron

[CLICKERMAN]

Ron,

Please call me, I can definitely help you and give you a new direction.  253-686-3623

Joel Turner

[McDave]

I would definitely take Joel up on his offer to help you before you take any extended vacation from traditional archery.

The symptoms you are describing could either be caused by your conscious mind interjecting doubt into your shot process, resulting in tense muscles that may contract on opposing sides at the same time, creating the feeling that you have hit a wall and can't draw any further, or your subconscious mind trying to shortcut the process of aiming and shooting the bow.  From your description, it may be a little of both.

The solution to problems caused by the conscious mind is to shut off cognitive thoughts during the shot process, and replace those thoughts with an increased physical awareness of what you're seeing and feeling.  Sometimes cognitive or judgmental thoughts thoughts creep in whether we like it or not, and a mantra can be helpful in shutting them out.  Use of the mantra should be considered temporary for this kind of problem, as a mantra, or anything else that occupies your mind, takes away from your awareness of the sensory aspects of the shot, which is what you ultimately need to focus on to become an excellent shot.

The solution to problems caused by the subconscious mind is to re-program the subconscious so that the shot is not triggered until a certain event happens, which Joel calls a non-anticipatory psychotrigger, and to focus your mind on the most important aspect of the shot while you're waiting for that to happen.  For that purpose, Joel uses a mantra to focus the attention on "pulling."  Joel's method is very effective for this part of the problem, and has ancillary benefits that help with the conscious problems of doubt, anxiety, muscle tension, as well, even though he doesn't address them directly.

So my recommendation would be to call him and work through his program.  If you feel that you also have problems with conscious doubt that are causing excess muscle tension, drop me a line and I'll pass along some things that have helped me in that regard too.

[LongStick64]

Ron, the problem is that once you start doing something wrong in your form and keep doing it, it becomes a hard habit to break. For me TP took a long time to work out of and for me I needed to work on my confidence first. I basically put away the arrows for a while and just drew the bow back. Picked spots and drew the bow and build up the muscle memory and convince myself that I could anchor. Slowly, and I mean weeks later I would add an arrow. Basically I took baby steps to get to where I am. Takes time but it can be done.

[LongStick64]

Ron, the problem is that once you start doing something wrong in your form and keep doing it, it becomes a hard habit to break. For me TP took a long time to work out of and for me I needed to work on my confidence first. I basically put away the arrows for a while and just drew the bow back. Picked spots and drew the bow and build up the muscle memory and convince myself that I could anchor. Slowly, and I mean weeks later I would add an arrow. Basically I took baby steps to get to where I am. Takes time but it can be done.

[Ron Vought]

Thanks for the input guys. I know the TP issue is solely between my ears. Just need to build up confidence and establish the proper shot sequence. I did call Joel this evening and we are going to walk through the shot sequence while on the phone. Looking forward to it.

Ron

[ivoryhunter]

I have had the same problem with hitting a brick wall often several inches in front of my face when drawing on a target with even a 40lb bow, yet drawing off target at something I did not plan on shooting my 60lb bow was comfortable to hold and I had a great sight picture. This problem can be overcome believe me I was terrible and very discouraged.

It was not until seeing Moebow's video that I realized when off target I would draw quickly,automatically using an unrefined rotational draw and kind of immediately arrive at my anchor using the back muscles everyone has been speaking of that I never quite had a handle on. Where as when pulling on target I was focused on aiming while trying to draw straight back and my brain just wanted to let the arrow go every inch of the way.

Speaking with Joel Turner and watching his video has re-wired the disconnect between the sight picture and an immediate need to release the arrow as well as firming up my anchor point.

I now use a defined rotational draw coming back to my anchor point in a fluid motion than just a little more tension until the feather touches my cheek bone and than release, if that does not happen I am able to put my bow down and start over which is remarkable in itself. For me being either my face or my fletching  the feather touches high on my cheek bone instead of my nose.

These guys have really helped and I thank them both, I have had about 2 months of shooting consistently well and had suffered badly from TP for years. Shooting has become enjoyable and relaxing again, you might want to remind yourself that you are not under any pressure to immediately improve but I think you will find the change comes pretty quickly.

Time will tell how I do long term, I have not taken a shot yet at a deer but am feeling confident, it will be awhile before getting to a 3D shoot and will see how I do with other people around.

I do not write often but again want to thank the guys that have truly helped me.

Tony

[Ron Vought]

Alright I worked with Joel yesterday while on the phone. Put a clicker on my bow and used the mantra to keep pulling to anchor. After a few shots I was coming to full anchor and making some very impressive shots on target. I have to admit that coming to anchor to set off the clicker was probably one of the hardest things I had to do in life. Its amazing how the mind works. I'll keep the clicker on the bow and keep working to make every shot the best even if I have to let down which I also was able to do as well. Maybe on the road to recovery and better shooting now.

I want to personally thanks Joel for his care and time that he spent with me on this issue. Joel's  system really does work and is highly recommended.

Ron

[Flingblade]

I had the exact same target panic symptoms you did.  Struggled with it for 15 years.  I tried many fixes.  Some would seem to be working for a week or two and then the TP was back.  Learned of Joel's system on MBB4 and then attended one of his shot control clinics.  I have been shooting TP free with control for over a year now.  I'm glad you talked to Joel and have started.  It is not a temporary fix, it works for good.  You do have to work at it and practice the concentration.  I use the feather to nose trigger.  I highly recommend attending one of his clinics if you can.  Joel is a great teacher.  Good luck and "keep pullin"!
Gary

[Green]

This may get a bit long, so bear with me.  This is what helped me after months and months of trying to cure TP using every method and help source known.  

Two things I have found that are helping me are Comfort & Confidence.  Both physical and mental of each.

First the physical.  If you shoot a tab or a thin glove, give consideration to a thicker tab such as a Black Widow, or a thicker glove such as an American Leathers or Black Widow Stick Tight glove. (Note - not pushing BW products, it just works out this way for this purpose).  If your finger joints are not comfortable at anchor for longer than two or so seconds, you'll never get mentally comfortable aiming.  Try making a switch if for no other reason than to get through this.  A lot gets written in reviews about "let's me feel the string".  In this case I DON'T CARE about the feel of the string.  What I want is to feel myself comfortably at anchor so that I can focus on my aiming, and running the last part of my shot sequence.

Mental - you must be mentally comfortable aiming.  A huge part of TP is the "vanishing sight picture".  We're afraid that the "good" sight picture we see will vanish, so we let her fly.  Often with no thought to our shot routine.....always a bad shot, right?  

Start with your thicker glove/tab and only one arrow at the blank bale or bag target.  If you don't have a spot to aim at, make one....aiming is what this is all about.  Forget your form for a bit.  Your goal is to get comfortable aiming (I promise you that your good form will return).  Don't worry if your arrow consistently hits somewhere else....just focus on the sight picture that you want to see at anchor (you can retune later if necessary).

At at distance of 4 yards, draw, anchor solidly, and aim at the dot.  How long were you able to hold before you let it fly?  Good!  Now, keep at it at 4' until you're in complete control of your release or the continued pulling through to conclusion of your shot while aiming in the manner you want to aim.  When I started this, I had to stay at the bale for a full two days (I spent 21 days last year after one of Rod's clinics working on total form).  You may have to stay longer, but however long it takes, do it!  If you're not comfortable aiming, you will have a very hard time with your hunting success.

If you're familiar with bridge drills (search function), then that's where this is headed.  No matter what, and you have to be completely honest with yourself here, if you shoot a less than comfortable, controlled, and perfect shot....then you need to go back to 4' and start again. I start over several times each day.

This process will not take as long as you think (remember....one arrow only), but getting comfortable aiming.....first by getting finger comfort on the string, and then at anchor, and then in your mind, will put you at ease at anchor, and on the road to riddance of TP.

Hope this can be of help to you.  Rob

[BWallace10327]

I recently started gap shooting  with three fingers under the nock.  Prior to that, I snap shot instinctively.  Some days I would shoot unbelievably well, but other days I could hardly hit my target.  My average was not good, not too bad, but very inconsistent.  When I started figuring my gaps and aiming I did very well.  In the past week or so it seems like it has become impossible to hold my bow drawn for any amount of time, not to mention time to set a gap and aim.  It doesn't matter what I do, even if I take off my  glove and draw bare fingered for some negative reinforcement I will still release on anchor.  However, the one in ten shots that everything works out I make a terrific shot.  I am not overbowed; I can point my bow at my target, close by eyes and hold at full draw for 20-30 seconds.  If I do the same thing and open my eyes at full draw, it seems impossible to even point my arrow at the target  before I release.  I use a 60# longbow, a 53# recurve and a 45# recurve.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Any help would be appreciated.

[CLICKERMAN]

Bwallace,

Please call me, I have some info for you as to why this is happening and how to gain control of your shot.

JT

[Berliner]

Ron,
I experienced the same phenomenon as you described above. I reached my anchor points with closed eyes and when ahooting without "actively aiming" (bale shooting) every time. But couldn`t pull the last two inches (my draw is 29-30 inches depending on longbow type and handle shape, i.e selfbow, Hill or R/D LB) staring at a target.
In my case it was NOT a lack of strength or a physical (temporary) limitation. I am not a beefcake but I wasn`t able to even pull a 40 pound longbow to full anchor. My conclusion was to break up the shooting process into small portions and to ban any visual distraction.
Three things cured this habit in MY case: To me it was very helpful to watch Arne`s (Moebow) videos on ROTATIONAL DRAW over and over again. Secondly, I concentrated on my alignment and draw solely. Actively squeezing the shoulder blades together did the trick for me (like holding a pencil wih your back muscles). And finally I concentrated on my arrow point to touch my index finger with every single shot (like a clicker). I believe in repetition to learn things and I exercised in this described manner for 30 days. After that time it was somehow ingrained and my muscles re-booted their memory.
This is just my experience.
Greetings from Germany
Vincent

[Ron Vought]

After working with Joel I believe that my shooting is better now than in the past 20 years. I can actually work/think through the shot process. I now feel my back muscles and bow arm positioning. When a shot is off target I know what just occurred. I'm able to let down if the shot sequence doesn't feel right. I'm now in control and working through the target panic. The only thing I don't like is the clicker on my bow but its part of the process now and has helped as a psycho-trigger.  I can now pull to anchor but deliberately set the clicker another 1/4 inch longer to allow a firm anchor to the corner of my mouth and its also has allowed me to work the back muscles during the drawing process. Everything is working and I'm loving it!

Ron

[cch]

Ron, good job! I was in the same boat you were in. I am lucky to have Joel as my friend and we shoot together all the time. This past year I made the decision to put a clicker on for one full year. It is now second nature to use it. After I kill an animal with it I will probably try the feather to nose or a tab sear. I am pretty sure I have the shot under control now. Even though I could not get through the clicker with a bear walking past me at 15 yds. I couldn't get it to click as the bear wouldn't stop and I had the thought go through my head to shoot as I was on target. I killed the bear with a good shot but I didn't hit the clicker so I consider it a bad shot. I have 2 deer tags in my pocket and hope to fill them both using the clicker.
Chris.

[BWallace10327]

I too have benefited from Joel's instruction.  I've only been out shooting 8 or 9 times since I talked to him, but my muscles are actually tired when I am done.  That doesn't happen snap shooting.  I can let down if things aren't going right.  The problem I still encounter is letting down when things do go right, if I want to.  As soon as the feather touches my nose, the shot takes control of itself.  I've still got plenty of work to take control of that aspect.