Thoughts on Target Panic

[Ron Vought]

Yeah my muscles are worn out as well after getting to anchor and holding now a days. Agree that snap shooting doesn't tire as much but I sure do like hitting the intended target most times than not.

Just got done shooting and the majority of my arrows were in the 10 ring on a 3-D target 98% of the time. The 2% of my shots that hit outside was my bow arm moving a bit upon release. At least I can now determine why the shot was not on target. I let down twice because I hit the wall and couldn't come to complete anchor. Little steps to improvement.

Ron

[toby]

Joel helped me several months ago, I was releasing as soon as I got a sight picture,  or even before I got one.

The problem I have now is once I am satisfied with the sight picture and start "keep pulling", I have a hard time re-starting. If I use a continuous pull, without pausing at anchor, I get back to shooting too quickly

Any suggestions.

[McDave]

What do you mean by re-starting?

[Flingblade]

Toby,  I've experienced the same problem.  Once at anchor and having the right sight picture I would start the mantra but the string wouldn't move.  I seemed to be stuck in a static anchor position.  What helped me was focusing my concentration.  Joel said in the clinic "if you are saying the mantra but aren't feeling the muscles move then let down because they aren't".  Once I start the mantra I try to only think about my back muscles pulling the string back. If any other thoughts including aiming come in I try to let down. It has been challenging for me to let go of the aiming thoughts but when I do the arrow seems to go right where I want it to.  Hard for me to trust the subconcious to aim.  One other thing I have tried is starting the mantra before reaching anchor and pulling through to my trigger without pausing at anchor.  Seems to work well on close shots for me.  
Gary

[toby]

Mcdave,   Flingblade described exactly what happens to me. With Joel's system I think I stop at anchor, trying not to collapse, then switch aiming to the subconscious and start the mantra. Lots of times there is no movement.

If I don't pause at anchor, but keep pulling right through the shot, I shoot very well, but am fearful that TP will rear its ugly head again.

Toby

[McDave]

I think it's important to understand the difference between the two methods of anchoring and releasing: the dynamic release and the dead release.  When Joel talks about drawing almost to the point of clicking the clicker or touching the feather to the tip of your nose, and then saying the mantra until the non-anticipatory psychotrigger happens, he's talking about a dynamic release.  There should never be be a point where your draw comes to a complete halt and has to be restarted, which is why I asked the question.  Your draw slows way down as you approach the psychotrigger, even to the point that there may be no apparent movement of the arrow, but your back tension should continue to increase without stopping.  The movement is no longer drawing the arrow back, but instead around toward your spine, which is sometimes referred to as completing the bottom of the "J".

There is another kind of release, taught by Rick Welch, that I use, called the static or dead release.  In this release all movement stops at full draw and the arrow is held with balanced pulling: back tension backwards equals the force of the bow pulling forwards.  The release using the static release happens without any further increase in back tension.

It is important to realize that under neither type of release is movement stopped and then restarted, which is a sure way to screw up your shot.

[toby]

Dave,

You've very accurately describe what is going on. The problem I have is that when I contact Joel I was a mess. Immediately after talking with him I was able to draw aim and conclude the shot, but I think I had been stopping, and this takes care of the target panic bit as I described I don't like the feel of the shot.

I shoot better with a static release, but when I anchor with the feather against my nose and shoot like Rick welch! I release very quickly after acquiring my site picture. Not exactly snap shooting, but it could lead to that. I shoot very accurately this way and the shot feels great.

So, how do I stay away from TP and shoot a static release.

Thanks so much for your help
Toby

[Flingblade]

Toby,  I also use the feather to nose.  If you want to shoot a static release you could try one of the triggers that requires no further movement of the back muscles or the string like the tab sear or the sear button on the riser; which I believe is the trigger Joel now uses.  I've tried the tab sear and found that when my adrenaline is up I do better with major muscle groups like the back muscles than fine motor movements like the tab sear but everyone is different.  I'm sure if you call Joel he can give you more info on using one of those triggers.  Good luck!
Gary

[toby]

Gary, thanks for the help.

What is the sear button on the riser?

Toby

[McDave]

Originally posted by toby:


I shoot better with a static release, but when I anchor with the feather against my nose and shoot like Rick welch! I release very quickly after acquiring my site picture. Not exactly snap shooting, but it could lead to that. I shoot very accurately this way and the shot feels great.

So, how do I stay away from TP and shoot a static release.

Same problem I had, and many people have with the static release.  The second most common problem is losing back tension with balanced pulling, because there is usually no direct indication of when the balance tilts one way or the other.

The first problem I have solved by the use of an interval timer.  An interval timer is a gadget that either dings or buzzes at whatever interval you set.  People who are into physical fitness sometimes use it to alternate fast laps with slow laps, etc.  You can get an interval timer as a separate gadget, or as an App for an iphone or other device.  I use an iphone app, and set the interval for 10 seconds.  I turn it on and put the iphone on pleasure mode in my pocket and can feel a buzz every 10 seconds.  This gives me enough time to take a clearing breath before I start my draw, and then draw with an approx. 2 sec hold before I shoot.  The hold time varies, depending on how long it takes me to take my clearing breath, etc., which is good because then I can't anticipate the buzz exactly.  I find it very easy to hold until the buzz goes off.  This is much better than trying to count seconds in your head, which is a cognitive activity that takes away from awareness of the shot.  With the interval timer, I can focus 100% on the shot and not on how long I should hold.  You can, of course, vary the 10 seconds if it turns out to be too long or too short for you.  Over time, you will become used to the shot sequence, and may no longer need the timer.  I find that if I don't use the timer, things go okay for a while and then I begin rushing the shot again.  Use of this timer has improved my accuracy so much no one can believe it!  It has totally settled me down so I can focus on the shot, so I can deal with the subtleties of becoming more accurate rather than trying to deal with nervous tension.

I deal with the second problem by drawing the bow until the string hits my eyebrow.  By keeping a constant tension on the bone under my eyebrow I am able to keep a very accurate constant tension on the bow, without creeping or increasing tension.

[toby]

Dave,

So, if I understand this, you are using the buzz as the Psychotrigger?

Toby

[McDave]

That's correct.  My mind is conditioned to release the arrow on the buzz.  This is similar to the tab sear mentioned by Flingblade above.  A tab sear is some kind of spring flipper mounted to your tab that you compress with your thumb and are conditioned to release the arrow when it flips up.  Other people may find a ridge or something on the bow handle and press on it with their fingernail or thumbnail until the nail slips off the ridge.  The reason I went for the interval timer rather than these things is that pressing down with my thumb has nothing to do with the shot, and I didn't want the distraction.  I don't mean to steer you away from it, however, as I understand it works well for some people.

[toby]

Thanks Dave, you have been a big help. I need to get back on the right track again.

Toby

[Flingblade]

Toby,  The sear on the riser is just anything you can hook your fingernail on and then increase pressure until it pops off.  I think Joel has a small screw on his riser that he hooks his fingernail on.  Others like McDave said use a ridge in the riser.  There is another shooter that draws with his fingers open and then brings his index finger and thumb together and releases when they touch.  There are all kinds of non-anticipatory triggers a shooter can come up with.  I am going to try a clicker after this hunting season is over.  Don't want to change anything up mid-season.
McDave,  Do you use your timer trigger while hunting?
Gary

[McDave]

I haven't actually hunted since I came up with this timer.  However, when I shoot in the morning with my friends, we divide our time between roving and shooting at targets.  We are fortunate to belong to a club that allows both.  When shooting at targets, I use the timer. When roving, I don't. I'm sure that the next time I hunt, I won't use the timer.  Can you imagine sitting in a blind or a tree stand for hours with a buzzer going off in your pocket every 10 seconds (even if the battery would last that long)?  Fortunately, there seems to be enough carryover that I'm sure I can hold for the few shots I get to take when hunting.  I definitely do use it when shooting in 3D tournaments, which I credit for my win in my category at Petaluma.

[Ron Vought]

Good conversation folks. Please keep it up.

Just wanted to bring everyone up to speed on my progress. Installed the clicker and worked with Joel to establish a mantra of 'keep pulling' with a firm draw and anchor. I'm shooting very good now and seem to have complete control of the shot sequence. As a result I am shooting better now than in my entire lifetime. Confidence level is back and a full anchor with back tension is working. Still don't like the clicker but it certainly helps me get to my anchor point so its staying on the bow.

Just curious...Has anyone removed the clicker from their bow after defeating target panic and maintained good form and solid anchor?

Ron

[toby]

That's a great question Ron. Joel helped me and I pull the feather to my nose, fixed the quick release, but then as I mentioned before I started to freeze when it was time to "keep pulling". So, I went back to a more static release which I prefer, but I can sense the quick release trying to take over again. I don't like pulling the feather to my nose, kind of like your clicker.

So, I am in search of another way. I hate being so mechanical, one of the reasons I switched from C bows. I shoot really well using the Rick Welch method, just need to stay away from releasing on sight picture. I might do bale work using feather to nose as trigger, and the welch method for the rest of my shooting. Don't know if it will work, but worth a try.

I want shooting to be fun.

Toby

[toby]

Just came in from shooting. I am going to go back to using the feather touching my nose as my trigger. It is very tempting to  simply draw, look,  and shoot, but I can feel the old bad habits creeping back in.

So, back to draw, aim, and "keep pullin" till the feather touches my nose. I really have to work at this, wish there was a way to initiate/continue the pulling.

Toby

[Lee Lobbestael]

Yeah at least for me it takes a long time to get completely used to shooting with a non anticipatory psychtrigger. There are times when I do not shoot well with it and if I try a shot without the trigger I shoot great. But what keeps me shooting withe the trigger is that in the back of my mind I know that if I stop shooting with a trigger, the gremlin will eventually be back. So now I just shoot right through the bad stretches with the trigger and eventually it gets easier again.

[toby]

Lee, wise words, that's what I need to do.

Toby