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Author Topic: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?  (Read 1529 times)

Offline David lozzano

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Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« on: February 16, 2014, 10:45:00 PM »
Guys wich DVD would offer better help understanding and helping to control target panic?

thanks,
David
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Offline shag08

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2014, 10:55:00 PM »
There is some pretty good stuff in Masters Of The Bare Bow Vols 3 and 4.  Those are the only trad DVDs I have but they do cover alot about shot sequence and it does seem like there is a little bit about the dreaded TP in one or the other if them...I haven't watched them in awhile and I check out all kinds of vids online so it's hard for me to keep track.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

I'll be watching this post close for what the other members have to say about the DVDs you mentioned.  I don't have target panic per say but I shoot best when I snap shoot and that has led to a habit of short drawing at times. The faster I shoot the more accurate I am but that extra half inch of draw length could only help with penetration of  the arrow.

Offline KSdan

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2014, 10:56:00 AM »
Read Jay Kidwell's book.  He has 100% success with Olympic archers.  This is a mental processing issue that affects athletes in many sports. I have world class athletic (Olympians) friends who use these methods.  Most tips in the hunting/archery world are anecdotal and do not really get to the core of the issue.  Sometimes these tips even work- but it is because they stumbled into a process that happens to address the issue that Jay explains.  Read Jay and you will understand what is really going on- then you can specifically address the issue.
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Offline 59Alaskan

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2014, 11:44:00 AM »
David,

While a good video, I don't recall the Accuracy Factor speaking much on target panic.  I am thinking you may be able to find videos/books that focus on target panic specifically.  It is not the main focus of the Accuracy Factor.  I have not watched Ironmind so I am unable to compare to that.
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Offline Dan bree

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2014, 12:03:00 PM »
I don't want to know about panic and all the other stuff. I shot my best when I didn't know all that stuff. When I stared reading about it my shooting went south real fast!  Back to shooting naturally  and love it.
Dan Breen

Offline Bear Heart

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2014, 12:24:00 PM »
Ironmind is all about building a proper shot sequence both mentaly and physically. I don't read deeply into shooting issues I don't have. I think there is an archery hypo chondriac in all of us.
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Offline Flingblade

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2014, 05:17:00 PM »
Ironmind worked for me.

Offline Shakes.602

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2014, 05:31:00 PM »
I have an Elder Friend that has been shooting Archery for as long as he knew how. He has Shot Competitively in Wheelie Bows, and Won several Awards, and Still Loves the Recurves!
  He was an  Awsome Mentor  to Me and My Whole Family as My Little Ones each Grew into Archery, and One of  THE  Best Friends I have!
 Sadly, I learned not long ago, he has hung up his Bows, due to  T.P.!!   :scared:    I was Stunned and Staggered!!   :eek:    NOT CHARLIE!!??!!   NOT   My Guru!!   :scared:    Yup, it has gotten him so bad, he has taken up Bicycling. I was Crushed to hear it, so I guess its not really an "In Your Head" Thing. Although, it Really  IS  an "In Your Head" Thing to Overcome.
 I know as much as I  EVER  want to know about it, its Scary to see a Fine Pioneer-Type Archer actually Give Up a Sport he has been involved with for More Years than I am Old, because of it!!  :banghead:  
   I pray for Him and  ALL  the  Victims  of  T.P.  may God Bless You and Save You from its Poisons!!  :pray:    :pray:
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Online jess stuart

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2014, 05:52:00 PM »
I tried the blind bale, shooting with closed eyes, clicker and everything I could think of but the panic always returned in a few days.  The Ironmind Video worked for me and I can now control my shot sequence.

Offline cch

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 12:29:00 PM »
The Iron Mind video is a good one. After watching it if you have questions you can call Joel and he can help you over the phone. He understands what you are thinking about when you are shooting and can help you get to the right place during your shot.

Offline David lozzano

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 03:57:00 PM »
thanks for the input, I'll give joel's dvd a try! but I will for sure read Jay kidwell's book.
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selway lil magnum 58" 49@27
Black Widow PMAX 60" 51# @ 28
Stalker Jackal 58" 52# @ 28

Online McDave

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2014, 04:05:00 PM »
I've suffered from bouts of target panic over the years, and still get it from time to time.  I'm sure there are people who have had worse cases than mine, such as Shakes's friend.  Since I haven't walked in their shoes, I can't speak for them.  But, logically speaking, if we're talking about a condition where you can come to full draw and hold on a target you don't intend to shoot at, but can't come to full draw and hold on a target you do intend to shoot at, it has to be a 100% mental condition.

I'm sorry that Shakes's friend quit archery over it, because I believe TP can definitely be cured, if not permanently, then at least for a while, and if it comes back, it can be cured again.

There are people out there like Jay Kidwell and Joel Turner who have made great contributions to understanding and curing target panic.  There are whole fields of Eastern philosophy and both Eastern and Western religious teachings that deal with calming your mind and controlling your passions.  People who want to badly enough have managed to overcome much harder things, like smoking, drinking, and drugs.  People have learned to control their anger and their addictions to sex, gambling, spending binges, and other types of compulsive behavior.

The common thread in all these addictions, and TP is an addiction, is that by the time a behavior becomes an addiction, it is usually impossible for someone to overcome it on their own.  If they could have, they would have stopped it before it became an addiction.  So you have to be willing to reach out and seek help from knowledgeable sources.

The second common thread is that one size doesn't fit all.  Joel Turner may work for one person, Jay Kidwell for another, Eastern mind control for another, and so forth.  I thought I had it licked by focusing my awareness on what my body was doing during the shot and avoiding all cognitive thoughts during the shot.  However, halfway through a tournament last weekend, I found myself rushing the shot and unable to complete my shot sequence the way I wanted to.  Each time before I would draw the bow, I would tell myself that the result wasn't important; the important thing was executing my shot sequence.  And yet, right after telling myself that, I would rush the shot anyway.

Finally, I remembered Joel Turner saying in his DVD that most of the time he really didn't need a mantra, but if he felt his shot sequence slipping, he would start using one again.  I didn't think I needed a mantra either, because I thought I had learned to clear my mind of distracting thoughts by focusing on my shot execution.  But even though that had worked really well for me before, it wasn't working last Sunday.  So I started using a mantra and I was immediately able to complete my shot sequence without being rushed.

I'm not using my experience as a recipe for anyone to follow; it may not work for me the next time I try it.  What I am saying is that if you keep trying the same old things, you're going to get the same old results.  You have to try new things.  Even if they don't work, it's got to be better than suffering through half a tournament shooting like crap and wondering why.
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Offline sloaf

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2014, 02:06:00 PM »
I've been around the horn on TP.  Joel's  method is the soundest way to overcome it.   You can make it better with drills but you have to actually separate the release mentally from Aiming and just focus on one at a time.   If coming on target is what cues the release you are doomed.   I looked at all the triggers Joel recommends and a plain old clicker seemed the best.  If i could shoot broadheads all the time I'd probably just use it touching the back of my hand as the trigger.   Just focus on the focus and the shots will start dropping.   It works.  Joel gets my full endorsement.   I was ready to quit archery before he gave me a way out.
If your shooting stinks, work with a Form master.  It'll bring back your A game.

Offline Firstlight

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2014, 05:55:00 PM »
I haven't seen either dvd so I can't speak to that.

But having (and to some degree) still having to deal with TP I have found working on form is key for me.  There are many ideas, perspectives and solutions which are generally offered for a fix to TP.

And I believe many of them work.  

One may work for you better than it did for me, or vice versa. I think it is important to start on the path of a solution for you and your type of TP, the rest will naturally follow.

I have changed a lot with how I draw, anchor, aim, etc.  Being able to let down or hold longer than I like to is good practice also.

Blank bale, separation of release and aim.   Practicing getting to good anchor and alignment AND then aiming.  Lot's of coming to full draw, on target and then letting down.

All of the aforementioned parts of form and practice have been very helpful to me.

J. Kidwells book has a lot of insightful information and practices.

Enough people speak well of J. Tuner that I suspect trying his methods will work.  I did try the "feather to nose" for a few days, serving as the "psycho" trigger and Mantra.

I found it worked and it was helpful.  I chose to not use it.  I may revisit it however at some future point in time.

I found nothing wrong at all  with the "psycho" trigger (feather to nose or clicker) but I wanted to first focus on having good form before introducing the "trigger."  That's just me, no commentary on the practice of doing what has been proven to work by so many on this forum.  

Turner will receive a phone call form you if you call him and walk you through his approach, very generous of him.   Many, including me have taken him up on the phone call offer.

Anyways, I do believe 100% that there is a way out of TP if a person is willing to just have fun with archery and work on good form.  With good form you can self evaluate when your arrows start heading in the wrong direction or you short draw, etc.  Thus easier to offer the right "fix."

For solutions to TP I would go with Kidwell, Turner and MBB 3 followed by quality practice with good form.  Solid anchor.

If you are seeking a solution to TP then you are on the road to recovery, so keep it up.  It is worth it.

Offline Jack Hoyt 75

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2014, 09:47:00 PM »
That was all interesting to read. Thanks
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Offline Matt Parker

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Re: Accuracy factory or Ironmind DVD for target panic?
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2014, 10:10:00 PM »
For me the clicker is the only way to go.  It will make you come to full draw and focus on your form.  The clicker is great because it cant be anticipated.  Just focus on pulling and you will forget about the release which will cure the target panic.  I have been shooting with a clicker for over a year and target panic hasn't came back.
Matt Parker

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