Got rid of collapsing, another aha moment...

[Flying Dutchman]

Since a while I suffered from creeping arrows. I could not find what I was doing wrong. I let fellow archers take a look at my form, they noticed the creeping, but no one could find the reason....    :(   .
But yesterday I sorted it out. And my accuracy improved right away.
What happened was this: when drawing, I reach 30 inches with ease. But at the release my arrows were creeping back, to, let's say, 28 inches. My fingers stay in the corner of my mouth..and my arms keep in place.
 So what was happening? It seemed my body collapsed after reaching my drawlenght. Suddenly I noticed, that when drawing to full length, the string touches my chest, but shortly after it goes away from it, as if my chest goes backwords.
I became aware of this yesterday.
So, I take care I keep the string to my chest when I am at full draw, by putting my chest more forward. And.... The creeping disappeared. My buddies who were watching upon my request assured me the the creeping was gone, I draw a rock-solid 30 inch every time now...
It is like having an extra anchor point... And I am shooting with better accuracy then ever:))))

I am curious what the experts will say here ?

[moebow]

You have discovered a move that is called "expansion."  And it does cure collapsing in a correct manner.  Congratulations!!

Arne

[Flying Dutchman]

Pffff, Thanks Arne... I am very glad that I finally found what I was doing wrong, it drove me mad.
Even better, it seems I found the right way to correct it, unbelievable!
Now I must practice this "expansion" a lot, to imprint it in my system....
Is it true that this way of collapsing is hard to detect? For the untrained eye for sure I think?

[moebow]

Yes, for the untrained it may be.  But expansion is really just a VERY small movement (described as "internal movement") that keeps you moving in the correct direction and the collapse is gone.

Arne

[The Night Stalker]

Arne, I do not understand what you guys are describing. Just curious, is the string  coming into contact with your chest while breathing?

[moebow]

N Stalker,

What we are talking about is when you get to full draw, there is a tendency to stop all motion at which time many start to allow the string or hand or both to start to move forward (collapse).

The expansion is a method that keeps the overall motion of the body moving in a manner that doesn't allow the forward movement.  In the Dutchman's post, he found that SLIGHTLY sticking his chest out keeps the string against his chest rather than moving forward.

This is a VERY!!!! small movement and It is important that your string hand DOES NOT move on your face forward OR back.  Another way to say this is that you continue the string shoulder moving towards the back (perpendicular to the arrow line).  For him, his body shape is such that he feels the string touching his chest.  That MAY OR MAY NOT be true for you and if not then just focus on your string hand's position on your face.

Just don't let it move and very SLIGHTLY stick your chest out.  It is not a function of breathing.  We recommend that at full draw the breathing has stopped for the duration of the shot.

Arne

[Flying Dutchman]

Originally posted by moebow:
N Stalker,

For him, his body shape is such that he feels the string touching his chest.  That MAY OR MAY NOT be true for you and if not then just focus on your string hand's position on your face.

Arne

Correct Arne... When I come to full draw, the string touches my chest. That's completely natural for me and it took me a long time to even notice that. When I collapse, the string isn't in contact anymore with my chest. I thought it was my string which was moving away, but in fact it was my collapsing body. There is indeed a VERY small correction or movement needed to get that string back to the chest and stay at full draw. It is more like a slightly different different position. And indeed, my string elbows goes more to the back in this way.In this way I have such a great line-up, that my string hand moves automatically backwords after the release. I end the shot by touching the back of my head with my string hand.

As for Nightwalker: For my training buddies it is impossible to touch the string with their chest, no matter what they try. So for them it is NOT natural, so I think Arne has nailed it once again  

[The Night Stalker]

It would not be natural for me to do so( touching string to chest)

[Flying Dutchman]

Tim,

Like Arne said, " his body shape is such that he feels the string touching his chest".  
For me it is just a different approach for getting my string shoulder backwords and keep my full draw without collapsing or creeping arrows. I think everybody has to find his own way for this. Appearantly, I have this strange body, which allows the string-chest contact   ))
My buddies can't touch the string with their chest either. Still they have a good form.

[Legolas]

And how about "back tension" which is getting your drawing  arm scapula to move toward the spine at full draw. So many pictures of archers show they draw with bicep and the back has not been utilized.
This could be a creep in that the scapula is allowed to move away from the spine when the archer is concentrating on the arm and face anchor at full draw.

 Byron Ferguson told me that back tension has a lot to do with his release staying clean.

Just look at archers at full draw and see how many never lock that scapula into scapular retraction, or in layman's term back tension.

I may be suspicious that you get to full draw then let your scapula come out of the " squeeze a nut between your shoulder blade" position.