Clicker technique

[Jock Whisky]

I've had TP for a long time and through advice from this and other sources I'm making progress. So I thought I'd try a limb mounted clicker to help me on my way. The problem I have is getting it to go off all the time. Sometimes it does and sometimes no matter what I do it won't budge.

As I come to full draw I check that things are in place, my hand placement is ok, string fingers aren't torqueing the string, I'm on target, back tension is established. When I'm satisfied that things are in order I try to rotate my elbow just a bit more in order to activate the clicker. Sometimes it works, other times not so much. If I pull rather than rotate it will usually go off but I pluck and shoot to the right.

I'm 64, 5'8" and have been shooting for decades. I shoot a right hand 50lb recurve, split fingers. I cant the bow slightly but don't hunch over (much). My draw length is 27 3/4".

So what am I not doing correctly, doing wrong? Better yet what is the right way to get this little sucker to go off?

[reddogge]

Perhaps you have it set a hair too long.

[Jock Whisky]

I don't think it's too long. After reading your reply I drew it several times indoors. It went off with no problem. Somehow I'm not getting it back far enough when I'm actually shooting.

[Matt Parker]

I have shot a clicker for about 3 years now, it's the only way I can shoot a recurve without target panic. When I first tried it I experienced the same problems you have with the clicker. It took me a couple months to get it down. I anchor middle finger in corner of my mouth and lock my anchor so it will not move and then I focus on pulling. Since I keep my anchor locked it forces the pulling to come from my back muscles.  I also have a 27 3/4 inch draw and I shoot 50lbs.

[Diamond Paul]

Sounds like you need to do some close up blank bale shooting till you get everything down pat.  You might have a form of target panic that keeps you from executing the shot; i.e., when you are indoors with no expectations you make it click every time, but when you actually need to hit something you can't pull through.  You might be freezing, subconsciously afraid to let the arrow go for fear of missing.  Clickers, from what my buddies who shoot Oly recurves tell me, have to be ingrained like Pavlov's dog before you start actually aiming at things.

[scs336]

I also am trying to overcome TP and have tried
using a clicker to overcome it.I have noticed that so many things can change your draw length just a bit.Posture,expanding your chest a consistant string hook to name a few.I think its all about doing all those little things the same way every time and getting that bone on bone alignment that is talked about so much here.

[Jock Whisky]

Not afraid of missing. I'm sure it's a form thing. I'll check my anchor as well. Could be I'm not consistent there. I'll anso try "expansion" instead of elbow rotation and see if that helps.

[moebow]

Jock,

Just an FYI, the formal target shooters that use a clicker activate it by expansion since theoretically all the "rotation" is done at that point.  Essentially there is no more rotation to be had.

I think that if you set the clicker to be "primed" at your full draw/anchor ( called "holding" in the NTS) Then your final expansion will activate the clicker more reliably.  Trying to do it with rotation is basically the wrong tool for the job.

Just an observation, there are lots of ways to skin a cat.  The clicker CAN work for TP issues but what it is really doing (again IMO) is jerking your conscious mind from sight picture or results to your shot execution at that point.

Arne

[Jock Whisky]

Thanks Arne. I had wondered if I'd given all the rotation there was to give more than once.
And you're right. When I focus on process and not results I shoot a lot better. It is improving with the help I've received here but I ain't there yet and I'm too stupid to quit. Now I guess I need to learn more about expansion.

[Matt Parker]

Arne,

All of the Olympic shooters seem to use clickers, do you know the technique they use to activate the clicker? I'm sure they use expansion, I just wonder exactly what they focus on during expansion.

[BobCo 1965]

The position of the arrow and the clicker must be on average about 2mm, anything more than 3mm will bring in conscious thoughts of getting through the clicker such as pulling or pushing with more intensity. Expansion is a micro movement that is basically internal; no further travel in the anchor position.  
The thought behind expansion is that it is a circular motion/movement bringing the scapulae tighter to the spine, thus expanding the chest.
During this phase, focus is on expansion with the core muscles of the back, aiming and other factors of the shot are at the sub-conscious level.

 

Originally posted by Matt Parker:
Arne,

All of the Olympic shooters seem to use clickers, do you know the technique they use to activate the clicker? I'm sure they use expansion, I just wonder exactly what they focus on during expansion.

[moebow]

Matt,

Bobco explained it well!  There are several "thoughts" that lead to expansion here are a couple.

At holding when ready to execute the shot, many "THINK" stick my chest out a little -- this is more of a thought and a "slight press" than a visible movement. (INTERNAL movement)

Another way to think about it is to pull the string side shoulder back a little harder.  NOTE! shoulder, NOT elbow!

The actual "ratio of circular movement" that Bob mentions presses the string side shoulder back and around harder and the actual movement is that the BOW side shoulder GETS PUSHED which causes enough movement for clicker activation.

You have NO conscious attempt at actually moving the bow shoulder side, IT GETS PUSHED from the string side.

What you don't want to do is to try to cause clicker activation by breath control!  You just physically expand a little and it happens.

This is not a trivial concept nor is it easily learned without face to face coaching.  AND, a main reason I seldom get into this part of the shot with many trad shooters.  It often leads to comments about getting way too detailed or complicated or sentiments along that line.

Arne

[Matt Parker]

Arne,

That makes sense. I have been keeping my anchor locked so it doesn't move and concentrating on pulling.  I think concentrating moving the string shoulder back is a good explanation.

[moebow]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

During expansion, the string AND string hand DO NOT MOVE.  

Arne

[Rob W.]

Sounds like way to much thinking and checking during the shot sequence to me. I'm no expert but if I had that check list I would have a hard time making it click.

[moebow]

LOL Rob,     :D  

"This is not a trivial concept nor is it easily learned without face to face coaching. AND, a main reason I seldom get into this part of the shot with many trad shooters. It often leads to comments about getting way too detailed or complicated or sentiments along that line."

Arne

[Rob W.]

Sorry Moebow. I guess I proved your point.    

[Matt Parker]

For me shooing with a clicker is just second nature. It initially took a few months but now it is nothing to it. It helps me think about my form and not the target. So it really helped me to lose target panic.

[Diamond Paul]

It isn't easy to learn, Rob, but once they get it down anything that sounds like a "click" makes them release.  We had a kid who was in some kind of junior Oly archery program here, and he used to work in the shop part time.  He was showing someone how he anchored and how the clicker sat on the end of his arrow when someone dropped a knife or something that hit the floor with a metallic sound; he shot the arrow through the wall!  Couldn't help himself.  It was pretty funny.

[Ron Vought]

The key for me to break target panic was talking myself through the process of just drawing to anchor....sounds simple. I used everything in the book including the clicker and everything did help a bit but until I changed my thought process I couldn't come to full draw. Once you look at a target the initial aiming process is completed and the brain has already computed the mission. The next thing in line is draw to anchor. Joel Turner asked me what I was thinking about while drawing to anchor and was response was "I don't know". That's what I was doing wrong. I spent more time on aiming process than talking myself through drawing to anchor.I was missing this whole shot sequence and never knew it. I still struggle a bit but hitting anchor for me equals consistent shooting and accuracy.

Ron