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Author Topic: Video form critique  (Read 1407 times)

Offline Kabo

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Video form critique
« on: December 19, 2014, 04:04:00 PM »
Hey everyone - I'm a newbie to the forum and have been shooting for about 12 months. I've been primarily focused on form with help from videos by Arne Moe, Jimmy Blackmon as well as MBB III and the NTS book. I'd love to get any feedback on the below videos (sorry there are so many, I was trying to get the relevant angles).

I'd been beating the heck out of my nose with the bowstring, and after reading through the forums here I've been working on "bringing the string to my face" and not the other way around. I've also been working on a smooth transfer of tension from my string arm to my back during release. However, I'm happy to take criticism on all aspects of my form.

Video 1 (From the back):
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1GDSUw-pjA&list=UUOOemG13oIsAW0bxIXDLZRw

Video 2 (Excuse the shirtless look, I was trying to make sure my bow shoulder was staying low by looking at the acromial notch):
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOmCV7FfaLI&index=7&list=UUOOemG13oIsAW0bxIXDLZRw

Video 3 (From the front):
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neyGYW8ZmFY&list=UUOOemG13oIsAW0bxIXDLZRw

Video 4 (From the front, different angle):
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9d7T3GbnO4&list=UUOOemG13oIsAW0bxIXDLZRw

Video 5 (anchor):
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCsZJaDua0Y&list=UUOOemG13oIsAW0bxIXDLZRw

Video 6 (overhead):
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgvzyUx3o14&list=UUOOemG13oIsAW0bxIXDLZRw

Video 7 (One shot with shot trainer):
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnAwDE-caho&list=UUOOemG13oIsAW0bxIXDLZRw
Howatt Hunter, 55# at 28"
Bear Alaskan, 32# at 28"

Offline moebow

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2014, 04:19:00 PM »
Kabo,  Just leaving for about 5 hours of NASP (school archery club) practice.  So won't really have time to respond tonight.  Quick glance though shows a little too much bend of the string wrist,  Absolutely the right idea just over done some.

And a 3 part draw.  Your string arm starts out with excellent movement then transfers to linear (straight back) the goes back to rotational.  Kind of an accordion effect.

Got to run, more to follow BUT good job so far!!

Arne
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline Diamond Paul

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2014, 05:12:00 PM »
Looks pretty good to me, although it seems to start and stop and start again, rather than just flowing from start to anchor.  It's almost like you hit a wall just after beginning, very briefly, then just continue on.  Watch Jimmy Blackmon draw the bow, as he has about as smooth and seamless a draw as I've ever seen.  It just flows straight back, although he is rotating the shoulders properly.  Your string hand looks a little odd, really arched at the wrist with the fingers stretched out really early in the draw.  Arne has a really good vid of the string hand you should watch if you haven't.  You almost look like you are trying to encorporate the K. Lee drawing method but it doesn't flow.  These are just nitpicks, really, as your form is pretty damn good and you are really getting the back into it and pulling through.  I'd be careful about overexaggerating anything, though.
“Sometimes the shark go away, sometimes he wouldn’t go away.” Quint, from Jaws

Offline moebow

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2014, 11:33:00 AM »
OK, a little more.
First, look at the videos of your back (both shirt and shirtless).  As you start to lift the bow, look at your string shoulder.  See how high it lifts?  If you draw a line across both shoulders that line angles down at around 30 to 40 degrees.  Ideally, that line should be horizontal (flat to the world).  That is forcing the muscles across the top of your back and the base of the neck to take all the strain.  We really want the "strain" to be much lower in the back -- down around the bottom tip of the shoulder blade.

Watch your self in a mirror and start with the shoulders level, and try to keep them there.  It is common for folks lifting something to lift the shoulder but in this case the lift should be with the arm -- just like the bow side.

Now watch either or both of the videos from the front.  I mentioned the exaggerated string wrist bend.  That is a hard one for many to understand and as I said, it is a little over done, but better than most trying this technique.

Watch as you start the draw.  See how you maintain that wrist position during the very first part of the draw? That is GOOD!! Then you start to flatten that wrist and watch the string elbow.  It now actually reverses direction.  It stops moving to the right in the picture and moves to the left.  The flattening of the string wrist causes and allows the biceps to take over the draw and reverses the movement direction.

Keep your wrist out, keep the biceps relaxed and rotate the upper arm/elbow continuously around the spine/torso.  For me, it feels like I am leaning harder and harder against a wall on the string shoulder side.

SOOO,  Shoulders level, wrist bent (just maybe not so much) and think "rotate the elbow AROUND the spine in a continuous movement.

Kabo, you are really doing well (much better than this may sound) and are very close to a good rotational draw.

Let me know if this helps or if you have more questions.

Arne
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline Kabo

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2014, 02:37:00 PM »
Thank you both so much, I can't tell you how helpful your feedback is. I'm going to go back to the stretch band to work on these elements and then bring them to the blank bale. Hopefully I'll have some new videos to post in a couple months to evaluate my progress.
Howatt Hunter, 55# at 28"
Bear Alaskan, 32# at 28"

Offline moebow

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2014, 03:38:00 PM »
Yes!  Using the stretch band, work in front of a mirror and you can watch that elbow much easier and get better feed back.

Arne
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline Kabo

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 10:45:00 PM »
Hey gang,

I have some updated videos after working on the above suggestions for the last couple months. I'm still having difficulty maintaining the wrist out. I can do it with the stretch band, but the weight of my bow seems to pull it straight earlier in the draw. Anyhow, let me know what you think.

From the top
 

From the back
 

From the front
 

Thanks again for your help
Kevin
Howatt Hunter, 55# at 28"
Bear Alaskan, 32# at 28"

Offline moebow

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2015, 08:44:00 AM »
Kevin,

OUTSTANDING!!!  YES!! Your wrist will and should straighten out as the weight of the bow increases and as you approach anchor.  That is a GOOD effect of having the wrist relaxed.  See how your elbow stays behind the arrow line and continues movement around the spine? That is a good thing.

You have all the "pieces" in place and really good string shoulder movement. AND a very nice follow through. Now "groove it in" and make it as natural as you can.  You have obviously been working hard on this and it is paying off.

For those that may be following this post, I'd mention that IF you get a good starting position like Kevin's, then everything happens all the way to follow through.  It HAPPENS, it is not something you DO.

Arne
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline Black

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2015, 05:38:00 AM »
Kevin, I hope you understand what I write, my English is not so good;-)
Kevin, I noticed in the last video - the drawing hand you Winkelst very off - that's not good.
Attempt to keep the drawing hand flat and just cancel. You will then also be able to better raise. Kevin, how strong is the bow, - I have a feeling he might be a little easier.
lg
Black
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Offline Kabo

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2015, 09:35:00 PM »
Thank you Arne! The changes were hard at first, but I found that working in the mirror with the stretch band and then the bow helped speed up the changes by giving me instant feedback. The shot is just now starting to feel "solid", and I'm trying to transition to a full 20 yard shot with aiming. Again, thank you for your help. I really appreciate it!

Kevin
Howatt Hunter, 55# at 28"
Bear Alaskan, 32# at 28"

Offline benny

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2015, 08:04:00 PM »
I am no expert believe me. But what I see is you are torquing the string. Try to keep your right hand palm inline with the string. Relax your wrist and the back of your hand. Just make a hook with your fingers.

Benny

Offline Kabo

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2015, 08:22:00 PM »
Hey all,
Today I grabbed some videos while I was actually aiming and trying to hit something instead of just focusing on form. I already think I see some form issues that are peeking through, let me know what you think:

Front:
 

Back:
 

Behind:
 

Anchor:
 

Downrange:
 

Thanks!
Howatt Hunter, 55# at 28"
Bear Alaskan, 32# at 28"

Offline moebow

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2015, 09:33:00 PM »
Kevin,

I can't begin to tell you how good that is!!!!!!

Overall, you have it!!  BUT, for coaches, there is always a BUT! In every video this observation is consistent and consistency is what we are looking for.  

Here is what I see that MAY be something you MIGHT consider.  I'm NOT telling you to change -- but this may help if you want to consider it.

You draw back past your anchor then let the string hand move forward on your face then again pull back to your final facial references.  This can be seen in EVERY video.  Hand on the face back and forth, shoulder blade extends then flattens and then regains position, elbow moves left then right then back left  again.

This reversal of motion disconnects you from your back muscles, then you have to regain your back tension with your final "set" to anchor.

In general, ANY reversal of motion disconnects you from your back and current thinking is that when that happens you cannot regain it to the same  extent as the initial motion provided.

IF!!! you are shooting well now, you MAY not want to address this relatively minor issue.  I, however, would suggest that you try to get your draw to a point where you can just lift straight up to anchor without all that "searching" back and forth.

Kevin,  there are MANY that would kill for what you have trained too.  Excellent job!!

Arne
11 H Hill bows
3 David Miller bows
4 James Berry bows
USA Archery, Level 4 NTS Coach

Are you willing to give up what you are; to become what you could be?

Offline Bladepeek

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2015, 03:37:00 PM »
Im not sure I'd kill for it, but I'd certainly be willing to maim. Man I wish I could develop that form.
60" Bear Super K LH 40#@28
69" Matt Meacham LH 42@28
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Offline Kabo

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Re: Video form critique
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2015, 10:39:00 AM »
Arne,
  Thank you as always for your reply. Funny, the anchor movement you mentioned was exactly what I noticed when I watched the video myself. Now that I'm aware of it, I can feel the momentary disconnect from my back. I'm going to work on cleaning it up a little.

Kevin
Howatt Hunter, 55# at 28"
Bear Alaskan, 32# at 28"

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