Torquing the bow?

[Branpoes]

I've been getting some sharp arrow kick on release lately.  Nock is kicking right, I'm right handed.  I've noticed after release my bow seems to be turning in my hand.  I exaggerated this "turn" and got it to kick even harder.  I'm assuming my bow grip is the culprit.  I'm shooting a hoyt game master 2.  Never had this prob on my bear grizzly but their obviously different bows.  Any thoughts? Thanks.

[moebow]

How hard are you holding the grip?  Many times, the harder (tighter) your hand on the bow the more likely a torque like you describe.  I think the bow should be able to turn IN your hand but not turned BY your hand.

If you do a search on this forum for a title named "grip question" you will find some pictures of a recommended grip I posted.  See if that might help.

Arne

[McDave]

Torqueing the bow happens when a twisting force is applied to the grip, or if unequal pressure is applied to the grip.  For example, the way I usually torque the bow is to press on the grip with my thumb, which causes me to miss left.  As Arne said, it is easier to feel a torqueing force if we hold the bow loosely rather than grip it tightly.  Some longbow shooters really grip the bow and shoot very well, but evidently they can do it without exerting any twisting or unequal forces on the grip.  If you take the conventional wisdom and grip loosely, just don't grip so loosely that you reflexively clinch your grip at the moment of release, or you will be introducing a new error.  I hold the bow primarily with my thumb and index finger, with the other fingers just along for the ride, resting on the back of the grip.  Since the pressure point on my hand is the meaty area below my thumb and to the thumb side of my lifeline, my knuckles angle away from the grip.  There are variations to this you can try in blank bale practice until you come up with something that works for you.

Torqueing the string results in about the same symptoms as torqueing the bow, so you have to be aware of both.  If you open your fingers and thumb at full draw so the bow is just resting in the V between your thumb and forefinger, and the bow wants to rotate to another position, usually to a more upright position, that means you are torqueing the string.  The answer to that problem is to relax the string hand and forearm so the string hand follows whatever cant you put on the bow.

[moebow]

"Torqueing the string..."  GOOD point Dave!!  In fact, twisting the string at full draw will place a torque factor into the bow hand as well.  So look there too.

Arne

[Branpoes]

Thanks for the tips guys

[AZ_Longbow]

did you happen to add anything to the bow? a quiver perhaps? and have you made sure your brace height it still on? had my string stretch after a hunt in hot weather about half an inch. started shooting spine heavy due to the longer time on the string.

[tracker12]

Dave
Nice explanation on the string torque.

[Branpoes]

Hey guys, wanted to bring this back up for a little update.  What I'm finding seems to be string torque issues.  It seems like I'm twisting the string to hit my anchor.  On release the bow seems like it wants to twist out of my hand.  I'm shootin three under with a glove.  My results are a fish tailing arrow.  Any thoughts on how to keep my string hand straight? Thanks

[Branpoes]

I just re read the thread and saw the McDave answered this....back to work!

[slowbowjoe]

One thing I've found; forget where i read it, or saw it, but one knowledgeable archer mentions that the string hand needs to be in alignment with the string (along with all the other elements of alignment, of course).

For me, that translates into sometimes being aware go how the back of my hand lines up with the string. Even when the string fingers are where I want them, and pressure distributed as works best for me - if the palm and back of hand are in not in the same plane, I 'm torquing the string, and the arrow shows it.

[forrest-hunter]

Excellent posts -

[jonsimoneau]

I used to torque pretty often. I believe the main cause of this is normally due to bad alignment. It can be the grip as well or the way you are gripping the bow but I messed with this for years and found that at least in my case alignment was the problem. I rectified this by slightly changing my anchor point. It worked. I used to hit left all the time. Now I never hit left. I bet I fought this for 6 years before I figured it out.

[TSP]

Good point by jonsimoneau...poor alignment from arrow tip to drawing elbow is a common contributor to why bows might twist.  Frankly, I think the 'how much you grip it' aspect is often overemphasized or even mistakenly applied as a primary 'cause'.  Different people will hold their bows differently (straight wrist, heel down, from the side, off the thumb base, bow sling soft, choke a snake tight, etc.) yet some might have issues relative to twist while other have no problems at all.

If your bow twists it COULD be your grip, but it's just as likely that it could be something else about your form, or a combination of things, like perhaps an unsuitable anchor point or string pluck as was the case with Jon.  

With good alignment and a solid bow arm you can get away with quite a bit relative to how you grip the bow or string.