TP - Taking back the control

[Green]

Having suffered horrendous TP for the past two years....and having tried (or so I thought) literally every single drill/method/cure, I finally read something day before yesterday that made sense.  

Most folks who suffer TP can't do several things....get to anchor, run their entire shot sequence, or let down and not shoot.

Beginning on page 93 of Asbell's Advanced shooting book he makes real quick work of teaching you how to control the shot.  It's kind of like learning to build your shot routine the Rod Jenkins way....but in reverse.

Beginning at the bale, draw/anchor/hold/let down.  Don't Shoot!  No matter how long it takes, stay at the bale until you have complete control over your ability to do this.  Then start bridging your way backwards to all distances and angles.  Then when you know you are in control, start mixing it up.....shoot some, don't shoot some.  You WILL gain mental control over the moron in your brain who yells "NOW" whenever the bow hand and your dominant eye see the proper site picture.

This is an ongoing drill, but I can honestly say that I've made more progress in two days than with anything else I've tried....and I've tried it all, including a hypnosis tape!

Good luck!

[Firstlight]

I agree with you.  I'm on the good end of recovering from a short draw - TP, after to many years of not hitting anchor.

I have been doing the exact exercises as you have described for well over one year and I find them extremely helpful.

I do them blank / blind bale, at distances, and from time to time at the range, while shooting.  Just doing it one or two times while shooting helps with the "feel" of being at anchor, etc. and being in control.

Letting down if everything doesn't feel right is very helpful in maintaining control of the shot.

There are similar practices in J. Kidwells's book.  

The Other books that helped me are Shooting the Stickbow and The simple art of winning.  The later book is great for trad guys even thou it's for site / target shooting, as he really breaks down good form.

TP is a breakdown in form IMO.  There are a number of ways to fix one's form.

Sometimes I also draw with eyes closed and open them once I've hit anchor. Then I aim (after hitting full draw) followed by either letting down or shootin the arrow.  This has helped a lot in that I don't "have" to release once I hit full draw, giving me more control.  

I did a lot of other things to including a change in anchor that added a bone on bone contact at anchor and a couple of reference points.

Target Panic can be overcome!

[McDave]

I agree with you, Green, that's similar to the way I won my last struggle with target panic.  There are those who say that letting down the bow when you know in advance that you're not going to shoot is not going to help with target panic, but I disagree.  Anything you do that helps you gain control over the shot also helps you to overcome target panic.  You might have to be creative in trying things, because what worked last time might not work the next time.  I think you should read all you can about target panic, whether from Kidwell, Turner, Asbell, Green, or McDave, and also just try things you think up on your own, because the only thing I'm sure of is that if you try enough things, you'll eventually find something that works....for a while.

[Green]

Thanks you two, and yes, over the course of the last two years I've read all that I can get my hands on that has been written on TP by all the experts, tried all of their drills, talked to several of the top shooters in several archery disciplines who have been afflicted, talked to Joel Turner and bought his DVD while trying every manner of mantra and trigger, tried all the different draw methods, and evaluated ad nauseum my own personal causes so I could plan what to do.  

In the end I realized that I had allowed the sight picture to be the controlling factor instead of my shot sequence.  If I couldn't get comfortable with the the sight picture I would never get control.  

The drill Fred details in the book was so obvious once I read it.  One needs to practice being at anchor, focusing on the target, and NOT SHOOTING in order to be in control.  It is I that decide when to conclude the shot.....not what my eyes see.  I fully intend to utilize the drill before shooting any arrows each day for quite some time.  Heck, I didn't get this way over night (kinda like gaining weight), and I don't expect any fast cure.  Just making daily progress is inspiring to say the least.

[Hud]

I had it years ago, and got through it by grit and determination. Even tried a klicker for target shooting, it helped but always viewed it as a crutch.

One cause is a lack of concentration, or ability to focus on a spot, as Howard Hill said, bore a hole through it. Second cause is being overbowed, making it difficult to hold. Incorrect form is another.

But I have to agree, shooting close without a target, picking a spot, letting down, and concentrating on shooting a few arrows correctly are important. Developing a positive, conditioned reflex is important to many sports.

I believe holding at full draw does not help me, because while it is conducive to target shooting, is less so with hunting, it destroys tempo and rhythm. If you watch or shoot skeet, trap, or birds you know how hard it is to maintain a lead on a moving target compared to a swing through and shoot or release when you have the correct lead. I find it much easier to shoot like a shotgunner, than a bench rest shooter. Coming to full draw and anchoring is part of the rhythm, of being fluid. The method taught by Hill and Schulz has helped me.

[McDave]

What Green is describing appeals to me, and I'll have to re-read the sections he mentioned in Asbell's book, to see if he adds anything to what I've been trying on my own.  I do believe that if you could learn to let down any shot that doesn't feel right, for whatever reason, you would go a long way in defeating target panic, maybe for good. Everything I've read on target panic, from Kidwell to Turner, seems in agreement with this.  The key is to be able to recognize that something is wrong and have sufficient control to let the shot down before you release it.

I do believe that if you repeat a mantra such as, "keep pulling," and focus solely on pulling, you can overcome target panic and complete a shot (if no stray thoughts sneak around the mantra and enter your mind), but I don't believe it's a perfect answer.  I have tried this and it does work for me.  However, I find that I don't shoot as well as I would if I weren't just focusing on pulling, and instead expanded my awareness to include everything in my body from my fingers to my toes that is working on the shot.  Granted, if I have target panic, I can't expand my awareness anyway, because one result of target panic is to cut off our awareness, which in turn further increases target panic, until we end up in the death spiral we are probably all familiar with.  Saying the mantra and focusing solely on pulling is better than completely blowing the shot; at least one important part of the shot, pulling to the trigger, is working.  But the goal I strive for is to eliminate target panic while retaining my awareness of everything else that's going on in my body that is a part of the shot sequence, which seems to be the same goal that Fred's method promotes.

[McDave]

I just read Hud's post, which he made while I was still pondering my last reply.

I agree with everything Hud said in his post.  In fact, it would be hard for me to find anything anyone says about target panic that I wouldn't agree with, other than that it doesn't exist.  I think there are solutions out there, and the more we know about things that have worked for other people, the more ammunition we have to work on our own solution.

[Green]

I agree McDave....it's all valuable.

Bottom line is without the ability to get to anchor, regardless of how long you hold before concluding your shot, you'll have no consistency whether that be at foam, paper, stumps, or live critters.

[McDave]

Green, I got my Asbell book this evening and read the part starting with p. 93, as you suggested, and agree with everything Fred said.  His techniques are somewhat different from what I invented for myself, but the objectives are identical: to reestablish control over the shot.  They work just as well for Fred, evidently, even though his style is to draw to anchor and release, as they do for me, whose style is to draw and hold.  They work for both of us because the objective is to overcome our instincts.  I'll leave it to Fred to reconcile why he should have to overcome his instincts in instinctive shooting; that's not really my problem. I KNOW I have to overcome my instincts in my method of shooting; I just want to know how to do it.  The thing I wonder is how well it will work under pressure, i.e. when TP raises its ugly head in the middle of a tournament.   My hope is that I will be able to let down, maybe draw and let down again, and then be able to draw and shoot.  Of course, you couldn't do this in a hunting situation, but fortunately, this only seems to be a problem for me when shooting in front of other people.

[Green]

Again, Thank You Dave for your insight and input.  This isn't something that afflicts just a few, and all the help we can give one another to work through it is valuable.

I think the key to what Fred's saying, and how it works for him, is that this helps to insure he reaches anchor.  Granted, from what I've seen he's not there long, but he's there.

I was the same for 40 years until I started working long distance with Arne, and then went to one of Rod's clinics.  I do like to insure I make anchor, and then pull through the shot.  How long I'm there doesn't really matter.....just that I execute properly and consistently.  I shoot split and am not a gapper, so a lengthy time at anchor isn't of real benefit to me from an aiming perspective, I just want each shot to be with the best form, and with the most consistency of anchor point.  Oh yeah, and I want to be in control of that!          

As for tournaments, one of the guys I shoot with and I started working on drawing and letting down at each shot last year to help get our TP under control.  He could do it, I could not.  We continued again when tourneys started a couple of weeks ago....his level of improvement was spectacular and he let down on every shot, then redrew and shot smoothly and under control.

I'll bet I can do it this weekend though!      :D

[britt]

Thank you both for sharing on target panic. I suffer from it also. At Rod's clinic I told him I have TP and he said "no you don't, you have a sequence problem". So I believed him and cont. to practice the sequence he teaches. Its getting better.

[Green]

Britt - he has said the same thing to me several times in the past two years, and to others I'm sure.  Honestly, he's right, but that doesn't provide any of us with a resource to cure it.

Gaining control over the mental issues allows us to go back to being able to execute the shot sequence, and until we do gain control, there's no way to run it properly or completely.  Fred's drill, incorporated into every shooting practice, is giving me back that control.  It's really great to once again be able to run the shot the way Rod taught us.

[dragon rider]

I don't think there's much difference, other than word choice, between target panic and a sequence problem.

I do know from attending his clinic and watching his videos, that Rod is a big proponent of letting down any shot that doesn't feel right.

I think, however, that the real trick is being able to let down a shot that does feel right, just to let the little gremlins in your mind know that you're in control of whether you're going to shoot no matter how good or bad you feel about the shot.

[Firstlight]

Originally posted by Green:

being able to execute the shot sequence, and until we do gain control, there's no way to run it properly or completely.  

I think the above statement is pretty much the TP cure.  TP, to me, is a breakdown in form.  (not addressing the mental aspect at the moment)

Finding a way to have consistent, repeatable form, is my goal, which in turn will help take care of the mental aspects of TP.

The clicker, physco-trigger - feather to nose, aim after arriving at anchor, holding for 2 seconds, focusing on expansion, etc, can all aid in the goal of executing good form but the individual archer, I believe, needs to experiment with and find out what exercises and techniques best work for them to overcome their TP.

With blank / blind bale shooting, practicing at long ranges, having a specific goal in mind on a given day when practicing, these are exercises that I find helpful.  

If I go to the range I often have a goal.  It may be only to have fun that day and stump shoot.  It could be to work on expansion or hitting anchor, followed by long distance shooting with good form.  Then off to shoot some stumps...
  Practice with a intent and purpose and never let go have having fun and enjoying the woods.

[Dan Jones]

As one who has had years of experience with the panic, I'd say that the emphasis which Asbell - and others - places on aiming before beginning the draw can be a contributory cause of the loss of control known as "target panic." In the original Archer's Bible Fred Bear said that target panic is the result of the eye triggering the release before the mind can control it. Over time, isn't "boring a hole" in the spot you want to hit likely to result in what Green calls "the moron in your brain who yells NOW"?

Asbell may well be right that aiming before beginning the draw is the best way to shoot in a hunting situation, but I think that for some people it's tempting fate as far as target panic goes.

Over the years I tried all of the suggested remedies for the panic, including Asbell's, with no lasting success. The emphasis in the last sentence is upon the word "lasting." I'm sorry to say it, but my experience with the panic causes me to remember what W.C. Fields said about smoking - "It's easy to quit - I've done it a thousand times."

 About a year ago I switched hands and so far, so good. However, I no longer aim before the draw. In one of his posts Moebow said that archery is a process sport and not an aiming sport. I think that's good advice for those afflicted with the damn panic.

[Green]

Dan - I don't see any way our minds cannot aim before drawing, or at least not focus on our intended target....it's just the way we're programmed.  I know plenty of folks who draw off target and then move onto it, but then their TP can take a different form knows as "the drive by's" where they can only shoot if they don't stop moving as once again the site picture will trigger their shot.

My appreciation here is for what Asbell writes about the simple "Don't Shoot" drill as a way to regain control.  As I said before, it's blank baling and bridging in reverse, and at least for me....it's working.  This drill goes to the core of the problem, maintaining control over the shot sequence while seeing your intended target....be that a bullseye, foam, or fur.

Glad going lefty worked for you, I know it has for many.

[Ron Vought]

I think if you are having issues coming to full draw its because you are spending too much time aiming and not thinking about coming to full draw. Joel Turner really helped me with this issue. He said to me "what are you thinking of when you draw the bow" I said that I was concentrating on the target. Never gave it any thought but was never really focused on coming to my anchor point...sounds too simple. As soon as you look at your aiming point keep it but have to think now about coming to full anchor by telling yourself to keep pulling. This has really worked for me as yes it is a sequence issue. I believe that people who suffer through coming to full draw is spending so much time aiming that we are not thinking about the shot sequence and process flow that has to follow. We spend so much time on aiming that in our minds its screaming....shoot instead of keep pulling to our anchor point!

One other thing to consider is that target panic is also a confidence issue. Practice at close range where you are executing the shot consistently. If you can execute everything at 10-15 yards challenge yourself to do the same at 50 yards. Joel also taught me to apply some stress to my shooting which for me included shots past 15 yards....thats how bad target panic was for me. A 20 yard shot was stressful to say the least. Now I practice back at 40-50 yards to test my shot execution and form. Working on good form leads to getting back on track as well. Arne's videos really helped me understand how to improve my form. Trust me it will click at some point as to what is causing the target panic.

I now pull to full anchor but do it one fluid motion while anchoring to the corner of my mouth. Some may call it snap shooting but I call it a controlled shot. I can't hold at full draw for 2-3 seconds. This has never worked for me even with light bows. Everyone is different. You may even find a thing or two along the line that will improve your shooting accuracy. Look at target panic as perhaps a positive and road to better shooting if you work at it.

Ron

[Ravenhood]

Spot on Ron, I believe that I to was "over aiming" , Im glad that I somehow trusted Joel Turner enough to really give it a try.  What I think he did for me was taught me how to fix myself.It has not been an over night fix, 16 months and I have REAL control over my shot sequence , what a blessing.

[Ron Vought]

Nope its not an over night fix. I struggled with it but was determined to address it with a positive outcome. People that are short drawing should just focus on the draw and anchor portion of the shot sequence. I had Joel on my phone with the speaker turned up...He had me shoot an arrow while telling myself to keep pulling and told me to come to full draw and don't worry where the arrow hit on the target. I drew back and came to full anchor standing 20 yards from the target. My arrow hit dead center on the target. Right then it clicked. Focus on coming to full draw and anchor....everything else was programmed correctly. The second you look at the intended target you will want to hold it but your mind has to get into the next portion of the shot sequence.

Ron

[Ravenhood]

I thought it was luck when I centered a target at 30yds. thinking only of pulling through.That is    until I talked to Joel on the phone and heard his ideas about aiming.It made it OK to think about something besides aiming, I suppose that is  ware the Trust came from.