How'd you guys go about learning instinctive

[brohymn2]

Other than shooting a metric ton of arrows. Just wondering if there is a process that will speed things up

[moebow]

IF!! There is a short cut, IMO, it would be learning a good consistent shot sequence -- WITHOUT aiming at anything.  Then once learned, starting to shoot at something to actually hit will be easier.

Directing the arrow to a target is just ONE of several steps in a shot sequence, regardless of the "directing" technique.  Ideally, that step will occur AFTER reaching anchor.

What is labeled "instinctive" is an aiming method and NOT a shooting style.  It is just one of many (legitimate) ways to direct the arrow to the bull's eye.

But, shooting LOTS of arrows is very nearly a requirement, and MAYBE even more so than other "directing" techniques. I don't think there is any GOOD way to "speed things up."

Arne

[fnshtr]

Yes. Do NOT shoot a metric ton of arrows. Approach learning methodically. Watch Arnes and jimmys videos, develop a solid shot sequence and get a coach/mentor if at all possible.

Do not do as I did. I picked up a bow at a young age and developed many bad habits. They are difficult to break once established. This site is a great source.

[fnshtr]

When I said "do not shoot a ton", I meant do not just fling arrows. By all means follow Arnes advice.

[brohymn2]

Thanks guys figured as much

[McDave]

As Ken Beck told us in a class several years ago, "One of the disadvantages of instinctive shooting is that you have to shoot a lot of arrows to get any good at it.  One of the advantages of instinctive shooting is that you get to shoot a lot of arrows."  

I enjoy shooting lots of arrows, but I need a purpose in doing it other than just building up my back muscles.  Becoming accurate in any form of traditional archery certainly provides that purpose, and instinctive archery rewards shooting lots of arrows more than most.

[Sirius Black]

There are no shortcuts. Besides, that would mess up the journey.

[Caleb Monroe]

Best way I have heard to do it is as follows. This is not something I thought up or take credit for. I read it somewhere.

1. Put 6 separate dots on a target.
2. Start at 5yds and focus only on the dot and shoot an arrow at every dot. Continue until all 6 arrows are touching the dot you shot them at. Do not move back until you can hit the dot with each arrow.
3. Move back to 15yds and repeat step 2
4. Move to 10yds and repeat.
5. Move to 20yds.

Do not look at the arrow just the dot. By moving back 10 then forward 5 it is supposed to help your brain figure the distances. You can go back as far as you are able to still focus on the dot.

Good form and mechanics will speed up this process. Instinctive Archery Insights by Jay Kidwell is a good read for instinctive shooting as well.

Howard Hill wrote about split image aiming or secondary sighting in his book and articles.  Byron Ferguson had a film where he put his secondary sight spots on the target.  That would only work for me at quite long ranges.  No sighting method is much good without repeatable form.  One of the no-nos is to look at the arrow. After a time the relative position of the arrow in your secondary vision will kick in.  I think even if one follows the aiming of Ferguson or Hill, it will all become second nature in time and be more like instinctive aiming.  I knew one recurve shooter that had a pin set at twelve yards that was quite long so he could cant his bow, and another at thirty yards that was closer in. He did not look at the pins, but used them as relative brackets for where his general aim would fall.  On field targets he was a better shot than me at the time, so I went to a four pin sight and used them the same way.  I was doing a lot of target work at the time so my form needed very little adjustment.

[mgf]

What Arne said.

Consistent form lets all the arrows travel the same way. That's the "hard" part. Once that happens, directing them to a specific spot is the "easy" part.

I describe myself as a "gap" shooter but, when my form is on and I'm shooting well, I often don't really remember paying much visual attention to anything other than the target. Instinctive?

Even in Olympic shooting/coaching, they deemphasize aiming and talk about just looking at the target through the aperture.

[cab207]

As someone who is just starting out and learning this as well and seeing improvements I can tell you a few things I've noticed that have help me get better.

1. break down your form, bow hand, placement of fingers on string, bow elbow, release/follow through. I found that when I was off I started breaking down these form elements and now can tell why my shot is off. really helps me tune my form

2. Shoot smaller sets of arrows the longer you shoot. I start with 8-10 arrows at first but as I shoot I start to remove arrows(1-2 every 30-40mins) until I'm down to 2-3 arrows. noticed it helps keep better form and groups tighter.

3. Take breaks often, I'll shoot 20 arrows roughly then take a solid 5-7min break. Giving your muscles a break helps with grouping and consistency

4.small dots.....I find that if I put a small flower or leaf on my target to shoot at I shoot much better. Just being able to have a clear visible spot really made a difference for me.

5. Have fun! if your not enjoying it and getting frustrated then your never going to be able to reach your full potential. if you shoot really well at 10 yards but are struggling at 20 then make sure that when your getting frustrated to go back to 10 yards and enjoy shooting. I find by doing this it helps me stay positive and motivated.

Best of luck!

[TSP]

The best advice I can think of for someone wanting to learn instinctive (other than not being over-bowed) is to not overcomplicate their approach.  

Regardless of style or method, shooting lots of arrows won't help if your form is bad to start with.  But, good form does NOT mean complicated form.  

Aside from overbowing, overthinking the how-to of instinctive shooting has probably caused more target panic than any other aspect.  Aspiring to achieve gold medal precision with instinctive shooting isn't practical or necessary for what it's designed for, which is primarily close-range hunting or recreational fun.  In other words this isn't olympic target archery...no need to make it so.  

Basic needs:

1.)  Form that establishes good alignment;
2.)  The ability to mentally center the spot to be hit;
3.)  Learning to trust your sight picture as the key to directing the shot; and
4.)  Liberal use of common sense during 1, 2, 3.

Above all, when it comes to learning how to shoot don't believe everything you hear/see/read on the internet.     Consider the above items, believe in yourself, then go shoot/improve/ENJOY the experience.

[Trond]

I have only been shooting for about a year, but after I adopted Arne's teachings my shooting improved radically. Watch his movies and make your form stick, that is the key to hitting the target.

[ThePushArchery]

Over the years I've become a dedicated stringwalker for competition and fixed crawl hunter for while in the woods. An "aimer" if you will..

However, I started instinctive for a couple years, moved to gapping for a year, then back to instinctive for a couple more years.

I was a good but not great shot during my initial stent at instinctive aiming. I noticed that my accuracy greatly improved when I came back to instinctive aiming for the second time. And I have two theories as to why:

1. Gap shooting requires a solid form. No creeping, no peeking, regimented shot sequence to ensure your gaps are being held steady and that your arrow's trajectory is consistent shot to shot.

2. When initially instinctive aiming, I think my sub-conscious mind was looking at the entire sight picture (bow hand, arrow, riser, etc) as a whole in reference to the target. After consciously gapping for a year and coming back to instinctive aiming, I believe that I trained my subconscious to focus on the tip of the arrow only in relationship to the target as opposed to the entire sight picture in relationship to the target. My subconscious then had the opportunity to use the tip of my arrow which requires the least amount of math to accurately place in reference to the target.

So after a quick stent in Gapping, my instinctive abilities sky-rocketed due to learning a solid and repeatable form and shot sequence required to gap accurately as well as training my subconscious to use the tip of the arrow rather than the whole sight picture while aiming.

Ever since, when helping along a new traditional archer I always start them off gapping for the first 500 to 1000 arrows. This helps them learn their arrows trajectory and understand the flight of the arrow much quicker all the while helping their subconscious along on a steeper learning curve. Form and shot sequence benefits are attained during the first 1000 arrows as well. Then we transition into instinctive aiming from there.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Shoot straight and have fun.

[JR Williams]

Same here as cpnhgnlngct, began as an "instinctive" shooter and was not consistent at all. Later I switched to gapping and worked alot on form and shot sequence. After a year or so I wanted a simpler system and went back to instinctive and had much greater success.

 I think this goes to show that no matter what your aiming system is, it isn't gonna be consitent without repeatable form.

 BTW I am a solid fixed crawl guy for all hunting now.

[ChuckC]

I may get vehemently objected to here, but, what the heck.

In all forms of archery, shooting, throwing etc there is some form of aiming that takes place.  In the highest form, you have a scope with cross hairs that will allow you to know exactly where a bullet will end up ( IF you do the rest f the sequence right and are at correct yardage),  At the other end of the spectrum is "instinctive".

Here, you still see a sight picture and you still aim, but the aiming is not normally done by putting a crosshair on something, or a sight pin, or an arrow point, and there is no purposeful gapping.  

There IS however a sight.  A vision.  After being successful at doing things a certain way, your brain finds a certain vision is what is needed to successfully hit a target.  Distance doesn't matter because it is all figured in.

You need to determine what that sight picture looks like, then use it.  You can do a lot of other things, but that one thing will make your shooting better.

Note. .  you STILL need to have good repeatable form, including ( but not limited to) Hand contact with bow handle, hand contact with string / arrow, draw to some anchor, release with either no movement of movement directly back due to use of back muscles.
ChuckC

[2bird]

If you don’t have solid form nothing will help you get to the next level, before you worry about a type of aiming, tuning, gear etc etc etc develop a rock solid form.

I say this not to stir the pot or to offend anyone but it's my honest opinion and "I" truly believe it could help many enjoy traditional archery/bow hunting.

Here is my 2 cents

I played the instinctive game for 2 1/2 years, and I can honestly say I wasted every day I spent guess as to where the arrow might go... I hate it when people use the "aiming a baseball/football" analogy, come on really!!! Yes anyone can through a baseball and get it close, but how many people do you PERSONALLY know that are good? And I mean MLB good not just played in high school???? Oh yeah, that's right zero (0) nada... So let's say 1 in a couple hundred thousand people can throw a baseball well enough to consistently put it right where they want it so why on earth do people really think they and everyone else has some magical raw hidden Harry Potter bull crap talent that will allow you to hit anything you just look at... Get real.... The only instinctive arrow anyone has ever shot was there very first arrow. If you claim to shoot instinctive and you do shoot well, there are only 3 categories that a guy could fall into. 1, you are subconsciously aware of the arrows trajectory aka gap or point of aim. 2, you gap or POA and just say you shoot instinctive to sound cool to your hard core trad police buddy's. 3, you are 1 in the very few hundred thousand people that can really just look at a target and hit it. People that fall into category 3 are very rare, only 1 I can think of off the top of my head is Byron Ferguson, or does Byron gap???

If you want to get technical aiming has been around a lot longer than "instinctive" so as far as I'm concerned "instinctive" isn't "trad" but archery is about what floats your boat so by all means do as you please, archery is very much all about what you want to do, but just be aware you are about to start a uphill losing battle, and if you do become a good shot it won’t be because of your "instinctive skills" it will be because you subconsciously gap. Seriously, abandoning this “instinctive” baloney now could save you years of frustration with very minimal result. IMO a good “instinctive” archer automatically constitutes a subconscious gapper, why not save yourself the pain and frustration and learn to gap (easy and requires almost zero thought) and in 6 months be where you would be after 5+ years of instinctive????  

ChuckC didn’t realize this (I think not anyway) but he actually told you to subconsciously gap off your riser/sight window…
You do realize you can gap off of anything right? it doesn’t have to be your arrow... A lot of people (instinctive shooters) gap off their riser/sight window...

To say they instinctive is better for hunting is a bunch of crap, if you struggle in a relaxed environment what makes you think you will be firing on all cylinders when the pressure is on? Go to almost any local 3D shoot, on average, there is a 50-100 point difference between the instinctive and aimers… From what I have seen most can’t break a 7.0 average unless they have been shooting 10-15 years. I also know quite a few that are very happy with 6.0 average+ and have been shooting longer then I have been alive. Talk about a negative perception of traditional archery!!!

[RC]

I shoot instinctive. I tried to gap and cant hold a hunting weight bow still enough and my shooting went to crap. I continue to shoot instinctive. My best 3d shoot a state tourn scored 10-8-5 with 50 targets was a score of 482. I shot zero 5`s or x`s and in real life would have killed them all. I was shooting a longbow I bought that day.
  I have killed near 400 big game animals shooting instinctive in 35 years of bow hunting. Most on public land.I would say it works. A few years ago I had a run of 36 kills on deer and pigs in 38 shots. Missed a doe and gut shot a pig I did not find.I`m not happy with that but it happens. My streak broke trying to gap shoot a deer . Thinking about shooting does not work for me. focusing on white hairs in the crease of the leg does.
  I`ve said all that not to brag but to let you know true instinctive shooting does work and is a trained method requiring solid form. At long range for me I suck . Out to 30 yards I do purty good.At 20 I do really good.
   I learned to shoot from a guy years ago that was a good instintive shot.He shot Hill style and was deadly on moving stuff. Me not so much. Its gotta be still..lol. I shoot with a solid anchor and hold a split second.
   Learning to gap is faster and very accurate if you can do it. I can`t. But if you can`t shoot instinctive dont think others cant as well.
  As far as bow shoots go there are many that shoot poorly regardless of style. Dont judge others by them.
  If your in a panic your shot will end poorly probably anyway no matter how you shoot.I know my arrow will go where Im looking in range every time as it has for years. Its confidence gained from proper practice and seeing feathers disappear through game. But hey...we all miss sometime. Good shooting and don`t give up on instinctive it works. Kinda like shooting free throws though..some are gifted and others have to practice more...then there is shaq..lol.RC

[Terry Green]

'How do you go about learning instinctive shooting'.....

by getting a good gap shooter to teach you                  

[Terry Green]

Seriously. ...good form is paramount....it knows not your aiming style...bow can't.....or body position.

But I have to totally disagree on NOT shooting a lot of arrows......

You must shoot a lot of arrows but they also must be properly shot......you must learn the shot before you can learn to shoot ...read that again

But I repeat you must shoot a lot of arrows you cannot get really good at something by NOT doing it.......

 look up and find out how many arrows Howard Hill shot a day and later when he started hunting and moved away from target shooting he admitted he shot a lot of his animals instinctively.