the switch to a "split 2 under"

[DanielB89]

I have always shot split because it just "felt right".  As of the past year or so I have been getting some terrible pain on the inside of my index finger.  There is a callous that has formed there and it would get so bad some times that I just couldn't shoot.  I know this is due to my elbow being too high, but my accuracy is not lacking at all, so I didn't want to change anything.  Well, one night I was shooting and the pain would exceptionally bad.  So I just took my index finger off of the string and shot.  I noticed a few different things instantly.  

1. Obviously no index finger pain because I am not touching the string.
2. A smoother release.
3. It did not change the tune of my bow.(weird)
4. I gained a little draw length.
5. I felt like I got a better sight picture.  I am an instinctive archer and some how, it made the sight picture better.  


I had just swapped to a tab the month before (a neet cordovan tipped tab) and I was loving it.  It being a split tab, it let be shoot this way perfectly.  Somehow, I managed to lose both my primary tab and my extra on a hunting trip last weekend(i know, what idiot keeps the extra with the primary one? THIS ONE!).  


Well, I started researching 2 under and saw that I did not "reinvent the wheel", but that Dan Tolke promotes this way of shooting and loves to help people along the journey, so I went to his site and saw his 2 under tab that has a fleece face, which I had never seen, but wanted to know more about.  So what does any tradganger do when they want to know answers?  Search, and then post their own thread.  Shortly after posting the thread, Dan pm'd me and told me to call him.  I only had questions about the tab fleece because I wanted to start making my own 2 under tab.  He was more helpful than expected and offered to send me some of the fleece because he has a "pile" of it.

I got the fleece and to my surprise it has a 2 under tab in it as well.  

Here is what the fleece looks like
   

He said this was some type of ram skin or something? lol. So it was not the fleece I had in mind.  

This is what the tab looks like
   

and this is what it looks like on my hand(this was after all of my shooting with the tab, can't really tell it has been used, imo)  

   


On the other thread, I did see where some said the fleece would deteriorate quickly, but that is not my findings.  I have put a couple hundred shots through it and I can't tell that I have shot it, but thats just my findings.  Dan said that the major benefit of the fleece is that it will shoot the same whether it is soaking wet or not.  That is a big deal to me because of how we typically hunt(walking a long ways and hunting all day, even through rain within reason).  

I basically anchor the same as I did with split, except I now put my ring finger in corner of mouth with my ring finger pulled firmly against my cheek bone and my joint on my thumb tucked behind my jaw bone.  This has really helped with my creeping.  Overall, I love it.  

I will try to add a video of my shooting this way some time soon.  Maybe this evening, should my schedule allow it.

[Tradcat]

Cool... I have pretty much done the same thing with similar results. Works good !

[Crittergetter]

Daniel, I've been thinking about giving this a try. Maybe you can give me some pointers in a couple of weeks at the deer/hog hunt?!

[Possum Head]

I knew Dan espoused this technique but never checked out his info. My impression was that he used his index and middle finger to draw but I see he uses his mid and ring. Daniel, are you still drawing with all 3 and dropping the index out or just drawing with 2?

[DanielB89]

I draw with 2 fingers.  one big thing is, you have to find the right thickness glove or tab, but it also has to be soft enough for a deep hook(right past the first joint).  The weight that used to be spread out over 3 fingers is not only on 2.  So it can put more pressure on your fingers which MAY result in the need for a thicker leather.  

Randy,
I can't promise any pointers, but I will show you what I do.    

Can't wait to be hunting with you fellas!

If the two under thing works for you don't fix it.  That pain on the side of the index finger is caused for many, including myself for a time, because of the tendency to turn the draw hand palm down at full draw and this puts  the index finger at a downward angle over the arrow.   It is unnatural for many to turn the hand far enough towards the face.  This palm towards the cheek angle does twist the forearm bones, which in turn can cause stress to the elbow.  You can check to see how much twisting range you have, by bringing up the arm in full draw position and turn your draw hand completely towards and away from you cheeks.  For most people palm down is the mid point where there is no turning of the forearm bones.   A shooter here has done the same thing using a Cant pinch tab.  It works really well for him, but he did feel the strain on his fingers and dropped his bow weight 7 pounds, he also went to a 58" bow from a 62" bow.  No finger pinch, so the shorter bow is no issue.

[DanielB89]

Pavan,

you are the second person to tell me about the elbow being too high.  I am not against split and I do like it.  What would be some good practice for getting the elbow down?  

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=147677#000000

If you scroll down to the pic of my drawing the bow, I can see that my hand is twisted.

Sorry, I did not assume that.  When looking the that pic it could be, but I do see that tendency of the palm turning the fingers down.  Neither am I suggesting that you should not continue with the two under thing if it works for you. The twisting of the forearm bones is often not considered an archery thing.  It is a musicians thing.  Unnatural twisting strains cause finger tension that often lead to problems down the road in the form of tendon wear and nerve damage. Imagine the stress that a fully turned hand into the face with the addition of a high elbow can put on your elbow and shoulder.  By all means do what works for you.   I shortened my draw length and dropped my elbow a bit to counter this same problem.

[DanielB89]

Thanks, Pavan.  

I will try this today while practicing.  I do remember that my finger pain started after almost 2 years of shooting and I had not had any problems before hand.  So I had to have changed something.  It is definitely a high elbow and a twisted wrist.  Thank you.  I will try to work on it today some.

[Gray Buffalo]

I've been shooting like that for the past 20+ years. When I changed to this my release improved right away. everything else was icing on the cake.

[damascusdave]

If you talk to a FITA shooter they will likely tell you that what looks like a 3 finger split release is actually virtually a 1 finger under release, 90% of the draw weight on the 3rd finger and only 10% on the fourth finger, index only there as a reference point

DDave