Target panic vs. pressure

[McDave]

The posts on target shooter mentality got me to thinking about the difference between pressure and target panic.  I first posted this to that string, but these thoughts didn't seem directly related to that subject, so I decided to start a new string.

I think it would be useful to make a distinction between pressure and target panic.  The lines between the two get blurred sometimes in our discussions, and they require different remedies.

Target panic is caused by the subconscious mind anticipating the shot.  Remedies are focused on taking back control of the shot from the subconscious mind, as explained by Jay Kidwell, Joel Turner, and others.

Pressure is caused by the conscious mind experiencing anxiety and doubt. Remedies are focused on either reducing the level of anxiety and doubt through desensitization, or increasing the ability to concentrate and thus ignore distractions that might trigger anxiety and doubt.

It is really important to identify which of these problems we might have.  Exercises to take back control from the subconscious mind will have no effect on pressure.  Desensitization and increased concentration will have no effect on target panic.

I've stated these thoughts as conclusions, but I'm really just inviting your comments to see if you agree that target panic and pressure are really as different as I think they are, or if it's just a distinction without a meaningful difference.

[Jock Whisky]

Target panic is a very misleading term for the condition. JMHO.

The condition as you stated is loss of shot control to the subconscious.
It is not panic. That comes after the condition sets in.
It is not fear of missing. That comes after the condition sets in.
It is not loss of confidence. That also comes after the condition sets in.
Let's come up with a different term for this malady. Maybe loss of shot control (LSC) or something that refers to what it really is.
I've suffered from it for years and only when I realized what caused it did I start to improve. I now shoot with a clicker and can't believe the difference on shot control.

I agree that pressure is different than TP or LSC or whatever we call it. Actually you've just jarred a thought loose McDave. Maybe target PANIC is the result of pressure. Maybe it belongs under the category of a "pressure induced" condition.

For me the cure for both was getting the LSC on the road to control and seeing that I could hit the damn target when I shot with proper form, one shot at a time. As I improved my confidence came back. The trick here was knowledge thanks to Joel of just what was happening with the subconscious. Now I wasn't afraid of it.

Good topic mate!

[Arctic Hunter]

I've fought it for years. Joel Turner's video helped a lot.

There have been times when I almost went to wheels and a release because of it.

[BWallace10327]

I agree that target panic and pressure are wildly different concepts.  By very definition, panic is anxiety produced by unfounded fear (APA, 2013).

Target panic (in my opinion) is a maladaptive mental state that elicits a sympathetic (fight or flight) reaction to the act shooting a bow.  This characterized by self-doubt, typical physiological responses to stress, anxiety and fear.  This fear, commonly referred to as freezing can manifest itself in different ways to the archer; inability to obtain full draw, an archer finding themselves unable to release once at full draw, or even being unable to move the bow arm to the desired aiming point.

Cognitive behavioral therapy in form of blind bale shooting and clicker training is great aid in alleviating this condition.  The fear of what will happen after the shot is mitigated by close range shooting without a target while the clicker introduces a conducive thought process to an archer's shot sequence by way of redirecting the archer's attention during the shot.  It works great; if it helped me it could help anyone- I had it pretty bad.

Loss of shot control is bad habit.  Depending on the archer's personality, this can evolve into target panic, or exist without consequence (other than having the potential to harm accuracy).

Pressure, as it pertains to the archer and their shooting ability is a slightly separate topic, although the Yerkes-Dobson law sums it up well.  I don't know enough about this concept off-hand, but I'll do a little research and share my findings.

[McDave]

This is a good discussion, and has already caused me to have some new ideas about the relationship between TP and pressure, even though I've read everything I can find on this subject for years.

[Bladepeek]

Great thread McDave. Although not directly related to the thread, I've heard a theory from more than one shotgun coach that we have a comfort zone. If we are shooting way better than usual, we tend to get sloppy and will automatically get back in that comfort zone of missing "n" number of shots. If we are shooting worse than usual, we tend to say "OK self. Get your head back in the game and pay attention to the basics". And bingo, we are back in our comfort zone. I think the trick that successful people manage is to edge that comfort zone a bit higher all the time without inducing undue pressure.

Sure wish I could manage that  

[BWallace10327]

The relationship between arousal (response to pressure) and performance are best illustrated in a bell curve, which is slightly different for everyone.  Zero arousal tends to correlate with lowest performance.  As situational pressure increases, arousal and performance follow UP TO A POINT at which the optimum performance/arousal relationship is reached.  At this point, increasing pressure, thereby increasing arousal tends to drive down performance, creating the negative trend of the bell curve.  

This only shows that a relationship between arousal and performance results in an optimum level of interaction.  Everyone is different, and arousal for some can easily be "stress" for others. For whatever reason, some people feel stress when shooting at a deer, but rise to the occasion and harness the pressure created from a target round in a crowded indoor range, and visa-verse.

[McDave]

Good post, Brent.

Another thing that happens sometimes with me is that I will be shooting in a 3D tournament, feeling my usual level of tournament pressure, which would put me somewhere on the bad side of your curve.  Then we will be at a target where everyone else has shot, and nobody has put an arrow in the kill zone.  More people than just our group are watching.  One of my buddies will make a comment like, "now we can all watch Dave miss too," and people will grin and chuckle.  Maximum pressure, right?  Should push me right down to the bottom of the wrong side of your curve.  But sometimes, rather than doing that, my mind becomes calm and clear and I put the next arrow right in the 10 ring.  Wish I could figure out how to bottle that.

[BWallace10327]

It is not my curve, Yerkes and Dodson (1908) developed this measurement. It is a dynamic bell curve that differs for each and every individual, although it is almost universal that zero arousal results in poor performance. Your prime interaction of tournament pressure and performance seem to be very different than mine, as mine are to anyone else.  I tend to shoot poorly in the tournament environment, but do well in other low-stress archery events such as no-score 3d shooting, stump shooting, hunting shots.  It's all in the individual.

[McDave]

Don't misunderstand me, I like the curve.  It helps put a lot of things in perspective for me.  What I was trying to point out is that sometimes in my own personal experience, an anomaly to the curve seems to happen, where circumstances that one would think would add more pressure and make me go even further down the curve make me perform better instead.  If I could find out how to reproduce this anomaly, then perhaps I could move to a different curve.

I don't think I'm that unusual in my anomaly. I think most of us have times where we perform really great for a while, but unfortunately, it doesn't last.

[BWallace10327]

I absolutely agree, that's called regression to the mean.  Sometimes I'll shoot lights out, and about the time I have this whole archery thing figured out my spinach wears off and I'm back to shooting at an OK level.  There is hope, however; diligent practice makes increasing mean accuracy and shot control a slow-and-steady wins the race kind of deal.  In regards to the Yerkes-Dodson curve, performance response to pressure can be altered to an extent as well, just don't ask me how.

I agree 100% McDave!!! I have experinced pressure, and caved to it! I have never had TP, and don't want it. I have seen guys shoot that I believe were experiencing pressure, and calling it TP.

Bisch

[ChuckC]

Folks keep talking about panic and fear.  When I shot right handed I had no fear of hitting or missing.   When I did it right and got all the way back, I hit, pretty consistently.  However, getting it all the way back (my form of TP), even with very light weight bows, got harder and harder to control.

The brain takes over.  It does what it wants without my controlling input.  

As a result I switched to lefty and I don't have (never did) TP on that side.  

I get it back all the way, go thru a series of shot stages, hold, release, the whole nine yards.  Nothing like I experience shooting rightie.   I would think that if I was afraid of anything I would be afraid on the left and the right.

Nope, it is far deeper than being afraid of anything.

I have some pother theories to go with it but can't prove anything so what does any of it matter.  

ChuckC

[stonewall]

I shoot and work better when under pressure. If it only happens when your under pressure that's cool. If it happens all the time it's tp