Feather to Nose

[SteelyDan]

Although I presently use a clicker to defeat the dreaded TP, I thought that I would like to try the feather to nose as a non-anticipatory release trigger.

I trimmed up a test arrow and found that I had to have the end of the end of the feather almost 3" above the nock, before it would touch the end of my nose!

Am I missing something? If I fletch up a bunch of arrows like that they will look pretty strange and may not fly correctly. Any advise or suggestions?
SD

[McDave]

Using feather to nose as a trigger also means that you use feather to nose as an anchor.  If you would need a 3" high feather to touch your nose, your current anchor is evidently too low for a nose anchor. You will have to decide if it is worth it to change your anchor.

If you decide it is worth it, then you also have to experiment with the location of the feathers on the shaft, so that a feather touches the tip of your nose just as you reach full expansion. For me, that means mounting the feathers so that the back of the quill is 2" away from the valley of the nock.  This will vary from person to person.

[olddogrib]

I'm having trouble comprehending that....are you anchoring back around your ear?  I use the back edge of a shield cut fletch to nose as a draw check/second anchor.  This works with me placing the fletch in the Bitz clamp with trailing edge about even with the clamp jaw. I'm guessing this puts the cock fletch 1 to 1-1/2" forward of the nock groove. I think most people who do this probably shoot 3U and anchor at the corner of the mouth.  I wouldn't necessarily claim it won't work with other form variations, but I can't visualize why you're have to go 3".  I wouldn't use it if it's unnatural, i.e. you have to contort your head to make your nose meet the feather.

[McDave]

[Sorry, computer glitch]

[SteelyDan]

I shoot 3 under with middle finger at the corner of my mouth. With standard fletching (feather 1" away from valley of nock, I get at least an inch of feather rubbing against my nose. Hence I would have to move the feathers an inch or more up the arrow shaft. Maybe I'm a mutant.

McDave, I thought I could use the touching of the feather as a release trigger. Do you not use it as such? I don't really want a second holding point, just hoping to anchor and keep expanding until the feather touches the tip of the nose.

Thanks for the feedback.
SD

[McDave]

Sorry, I misunderstood your question, so disregard my earlier answer. Yes, use it as a trigger. It also functions more or less as an anchor, because it should touch the same spot on your nose each time. It's more of an anchor when you have a dead release, less of one with a dynamic release.

Mount the feathers wherever it takes so one touches your nose at full expansion. If you have to mount them too far forward, it may indicate that you are not drawing with your back muscles in a J shaped draw, but may be drawing straight back with your arm muscles. But I need 2", some people need more, and that's okay as long as you're drawing with your back muscles.

[knobby]

Have you tried shooting cock feather in (or out) to get the feather to your nose? I shoot three-under, and if I anchor with the index finger in the corner of my mouth, I need cock feather in, while middle finger to the mouth corner mandates cock feather out. Something to try.

[olddogrib]

Okay, I'm with you now...you've got too much of a good thing!  Knobby's suggestion might work, as it theoretically might make contact up the bridge of the nose minimizing that excess your getting at the tip of it.  You might have to try left wing and right to get contact at all, though.  I would worry about moving it up the shaft a little if it helps, although I don't think I'd go 3".

[SteelyDan]

Thanks for the input guys. I have been experimenting with form and feathers and think I have things almost figured out.

I have my feathers set at 2 1/2 inches now in front of the end of the nock and it seems to be about right. I can get to almost full draw, with back tension and then just kind of expand to where the feathers touches the nose. Then the arrow is off.

The only thing now is that is is sometimes difficult to "feel" when the feather is touching. I am using parabolic feathers and may have to change to shield. Or maybe have to stiffen the cock feather by putting a little glue or something to make the end of the feather harder, so I can feel it.

In any event, using feather to nose may allow me to shoot without the aid of a clicker.

Thanks again all,
SD

[McDave]

Rick Welch recommends LW shield cut (for a RH shooter) for this purpose, and I've never had any problem feeling the contact with my nose, so I'd recommend that over parabolic. The only problem with using this as a draw check is that there are a few errors you can make and still get the feather to touch your nose, whereas with a clicker, you have to get to the measured draw length somehow or the clicker won't go off.

[the rifleman]

I actually had to move my feathers closer to the nock and burn the back of them more squarely to get contact with my nose---everyone is built differently and does things a little differently I guess.  I don't use the feather as a trigger, but use it as an anchor point and it works very well to make sure that my head is in the exact same place everytime in relation to the arrow.  My accuracy and consistency have really improved since I started doing this.  I believe that it works somewhat like a kisser button.

[ThePushArchery]

I agree with McDave, the feather to the nose as a psycho trigger allows for inconsistencies in draw length.

I can anchor in the same place on my face fully expanded to 29" and then roll my back inward and hunch over while keeping my anchor solid in my face, essentially reducing my draw length to 26" yet my nose position in relationship to the feather stays the same.

The only unbiased draw check / psycho trigger that without a shadow of a doubt tells the archer they've reached a full and consistent draw length is a limb mounted or end of arrow target clicker.

The feather to the nose is a very good addition to the archers tool box who does not want to utilize a clicker, but he should be aware that it is not full proof in guaranteeing a consistent draw length shot to shot.

[SteelyDan]

All good advice gentlemen. I have been working hard  on my form and experimented more on feather to nose as a non-anticipatory trigger.

Using a parabolic feather I now have the cock feather positioned 2" from the throat of the nock. Using an old fashioned pointy cock feather (or trimmed parabolic) the length is 2 1/4" from the throat of the nock. I found that the cock feather was best positioned "up" about 10 degrees on the rest, so as to touch my nose better.

McDave was right in that I was using my draw arm too much for pulling and I have been working hard on the J and pulling with my back muscles. I have had to find a happy medium though, as too much "J stroke" brought the string closer into my face and was ripping into my bottom lip regularly.

My last 3D competition went well, and as it was pointed out above, it is another addition to the archers tool box.
Cheers,
SD

[Caleb Monroe]

I took Joel's clinic at RMSGear this weekend. Tom puts a 1/2" or so piece of vane on his arrows. He said it won't get soft like a feather or if feathers get damp and lay flat. The vane won't and it has no give like a feather could. Looked like a great option. If you have any questions PM me I may not have explained it very well.

[Caleb Monroe]

Oops

I'd have to put the feathers waaaay up the shaft too for the tip of the feathers to hit my nose.  What I've done for years is have the feather touch just under my nose.

[kenneth butler]

I had the same problem with parabolic. A traditional or shield cut puts the rear corner of the feather much closer to your nose and you can move the feathers back closer to the nock. Theoretically they should give slightly more steering the closer they are to the back of the arrow.

[Orion]

Been fightingTP for a long time myself.  Tried the feather to nose thing. Sometimes it would hit my nose, other times it would miss it.  Sometimes, I wasn't sure I felt the feather, or thought I did when it wasn't quite there.  Talk about messing with one's head.  Couldn't get consistent draw length with it.

Just put a clicker on and am doing much better with it.  Apparently, I do better with an audible trigger rather than a tactile one. I suppose the string involved in using a clicker can sometimes get caught on brush, but otherwise, I don't see any advantage to using the feather to nose trigger, and I think the clicker is more foolproof, which is what I need.  

[SteelyDan]

Everything you say is true Orion, and I am in the same boat as you regarding the issues around feather to nose.

One of the advantages to feather to nose is that you can shoot in Barebow, Longbow and Instinctive Divisions of shoots which prohibit the use of clickers.

A clicker to fight TP is best for me too but is not always an option.
SD

[oldrubline]

I tried the feather to nose and didn't like it very much. I have been using arrows tuned so that the base of the head is felt at max back tension.  This insures full consistent draw and seems to work well for me. I have no fear at all that I will pull past. I train myself on blank bale with eyes closed to slowly and consistently 'keep pullin' until I feel the edge of the field point or grizzly head...then BAM!  Its gone...

I've had to put a drop of rosin or something at the base to feel on the field points.

-Dan