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Author Topic: 20 yards is killing me  (Read 4488 times)

Offline txcookie

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20 yards is killing me
« on: September 17, 2016, 05:14:00 PM »
I have 100 percent confidence in a 15 yard shot. I wouldn't say that about 20. Been at this a month so is my progression normal? Does it really take that long to get proficient at 20?
Is it deer season yet?

Offline damascusdave

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2016, 05:19:00 PM »
It can take a lot longer to get proficient at 15...are you working with a coach or mentor?

DDave
I set out a while ago to reduce my herd of 40 bows...And I am finally down to 42

Online Possum Head

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2016, 05:59:00 PM »
20 to 25 is where I hit the wall. I said I was just gonna shoot 25 til I got it right but always find myself back at 15 to 20 to keep my sanity. Keep at it and remember it's suppose to be fun.

Offline Michael Arnette

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2016, 06:18:00 PM »
It took me 2-3 years...and turn another 2 years to be good out to 25

Offline txcookie

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2016, 06:26:00 PM »
Wow.   I can't hunt yet. I know I don't have the discipline to let a good deer walk at 20
Is it deer season yet?

Offline ChuckC

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2016, 06:30:00 PM »
That's part of hunting, knowing your limitations and sticking to them.  If you can shoot only five yards, go out.  That is a large part of the learning too.  But DO NOT shoot at something farther than you are proficient.  That's just the way it is.
ChuckC

Offline Tradcat

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2016, 06:44:00 PM »
For me, inside 17 yards is my ethical hunting range. I can shoot good from time to time out to 25 yards, but not enough to risk wounding an animal. It's amazing just how much the accuracy suffers adding just 3 yards to the shot !

Offline BWallace10327

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2016, 06:46:00 PM »
Quit ranging your shots and the mental block goes away.
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Offline txcookie

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2016, 07:06:00 PM »
It's maddening. Some groups are 3 inches others a foot. I'm just loosing it in back yard. At 15 I'm just money but 5 more yards and I'm 50 50
Is it deer season yet?

Online BAK

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2016, 07:28:00 PM »
Try to keep 20 consecutive arrows on a 9 inch paper plate.  What ever distance that is that should be your effective range.  Least that's what Frisky told me.  LOL
"May your blood trails be short and your drags all down hill."

Offline txcookie

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2016, 07:42:00 PM »
I have no ego lol. I'm at 45 pounds now and I honestly don't feel it. I can hold draw for about 10 seconds before I need to let down.im not ashamed to buy some 35 limbs to train with. May do just that
Is it deer season yet?

Online Pine

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2016, 07:42:00 PM »
Keep in mind that most deer are shot at less than 15 yards .
For me , it comes down to how It feels . I have shot deer over 20 yards , and I have passed up shots at less than 15 yards just because it didn't feel right .
It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled. Mark Twain

If you're afraid to offend, you can't be honest.

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Offline Shadowhnter

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2016, 07:49:00 PM »
If you want to dial in at 20 yards, spend a lot of time shooting 25-30 yards. Dont mess with 20 at all for quite a while. Dedicate, and work 25-30 yards and improve there. Only then, move back up to 20. Mentally your thinking 20 is far. After shooting the longer distance a while, 20 seems close and you will tighten up there.

Offline LB_hntr

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2016, 07:55:00 PM »
As shadow hunter said. To get good at 20 practice at 25 or 30. Errors in you shooting will show up better and you can get them dialed in. Then back in to 20 yards and watch what happens.
I often shoot at 40 and 50 to work on my shooting errors as they are easy to see in the hit locations. Makes me lethal out to 30. But I never take shots at deer further than 25 and most I kill are under 15.

Offline Warden609

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2016, 07:58:00 PM »
I agree on the longer yardage practice. If you feel your form is good back up to 30 and shoot good controlled shots. It will make twenty look a lot better. I always shoot long yardage during practice. Makes me really confident in hunting distances. Make sure your having fun with your shooting!!

Offline Longbowwally

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2016, 08:00:00 PM »
At 15 yards and under, its very easy to see a small 'spot' to hit - at 20 and beyond, for most folks, its harder to pick a small spot which equates to less accuracy at those ranges…Also, the longer the distance the more pronounced errors in the shot become.

PM me and I will share some of the things I have learned about improving your shooting…
LONG LIVE THE LONGBOW!

Wally Holmes

Offline Friend

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2016, 08:10:00 PM »
Please consider tracking down someone who is quite skilled regarding shot execution and hopefully someone that you can relate to.

Most of the individuals that I have worked with can mark fairly well out to 25 yards after 5 sessions provided they are themselves receptive to my own instruction.

My newest guy that I took on his first traditional bow hunt today was effectively bareshafting at 25 yards after five sessions.
He had never shot a traditional bow before.

There are certain mandatory requirements that must be fulfilled to permit the bow to shoot. A tuned bow is dying to place the arrow on the mark. Making rocket science out of shooting and enjoying the traditional experience has withheld competency and confidence from many.
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Offline mec lineman

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2016, 08:47:00 PM »
Let me change ideas,keep your 45lb bow and stick within your comfort zone. Many if not most of all my bow kills are at ranges under 15 yards. Don't have the will power to pass up a longer shot? Hunt tighter!
"Pick a spot,now aim 6" lower!"                        
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Offline Sam McMichael

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2016, 08:48:00 PM »
Just keep shooting at various ranges, and hang with it. All of us have days where we are very accurate and days where we are not accurate at all. That is just part of archery, but if you continue to shoot you will get better. I am working on 25 yards, and have been for months, so I understand your frustration. You can't force it, so just let it happen.
Sam

Offline riser

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Re: 20 yards is killing me
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2016, 09:03:00 PM »
Break down your shot.  There are a lot of things going on in an archery shot sequence.

The best advice I received as a trad nube was to first work on left/right variability.  Shoot at a backstop (I used a compressed bale of hay) that has a vertical line down the middle of it. I wrapped my bale in plastic wrap (heavy duty Saran Wrap to "weatherize" it). Then I placed a long piece of masking tape vertically down the middle of it (standing the bale on the short edge, so it stands "tall").  I then place another piece of masking tape across the "short" axis of the bale about 4-5" from the bottom, the top and one across the middle (all horizontally across the bale's short axis).

My "standard" distance is 20 yards, but I practice at 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30, and then move back to find my "point" on distance.

I shoot 3 under.

I put the arrow point on the lowest tape intersection and then focus on my release.  I really don't care if the arrow/impact has high / low variation, but I AM interested in L/R variation.  This isn't really "blank bale" shooting, as I am not shooting at a blank target.  I am putting the arrow tip on a "mark" (tape intersection).  After that shot sequence step of "aiming", I focus on DEVELOPING BACK TENSION (not neck/trapezoid stress), RELEASE, and BOW ARM FOLLOW THROUGH. I take 5 shots.

When I first started trad shooting, (3+ years ago), I didn't have groups.  I had "clusters" that were mostly on the target.  As time/practice passed, I'd notice 3/5 arrows in a "group", then time passed, and I got 4/5 arrows in a group, then sometimes  5/5.  Then the groups got smaller.

Once I got a representative 5 shot group, I was able to experiment with arrow tuning by trying different shafts (I own Easton xx75 aluminum Tributes in 1816, 1916, and 2016.  All with 4" parabolic  x 3 /shaft feathers.).  I also experimented with shaft tip weights.  This doesn't really help "precision", but it does help in adjusting L/R (weak/strong) issues.  I also experimented with strike plate thickness.  But, GROUP SIZE, was addressed and improved by this semi-blank bale arrow point-on-a-mark drill.  I was told that if you get your release a follow through addressed (isolated by this drill), accuracy will improve.  I was told L/R practice would be the biggest improvement to work on, and that horizontal (up/down) issues will follow.  "They" were right.

You don't HAVE to use the horizontal tape lines and use a point-on aiming point.  Perhaps this is even too much to process.  Break it down further, and just put the arrow tip on the vertical line- anywhere, and focus on release.  This still isn't true "blank bale" shooting, as you are focusing (and aiming) at a vertical line.  True blank bale shooting breaks the shot sequence down to the most elemental  issue of just plunking arrows into a safe backstop, while you solely focus on release. If you get feet positioned right, you can do this with your eyes closed, really "feel" the release.  So, breaking down a shot sequence to the most basic element IS very helpful (and recommended).  The drill of aiming at a mark or tape intersection is has an aiming component-so it MAY be too much at first.  Don't be afraid to "simplify" the drill down to "just vertical" or "true blank bale/not aiming" release drills.  I would wager any of these drills will help your group size and consistency.

I also do another drill, but without my bow. It's really "blank bale shooting" without a bow. I use it to focus on back tension, and release/follow through of my drawing arm. I shoot right handed (draw with right hand). I grab my left and right hand finger tips across my upper chest/collar bone area and then raise my right hand up to my anchor point (my left hand is "the string"), and pull horizontally equally laterally outward (simulating drawing, or holding, the string).  I focus on having an upright,  stress-free neck, feeling my back muscles pull. Then I gradually "release" with my right hand.  I want to see/feel a quick and natural recoiling of my right hand.  I don't try to touch my right shoulder or face with my draw hand as an "end point".  I just let it "pop" out from the release about 6"(?) like a spring, or a "cut rope that was under tension."    In "The Wedge" video series on youtube, they call this a "natural release."  I don't do it every time, but that is what I'm trying to achieve.

with this bowless drill, I am trying to "breakdown" one/two aspects of my shot sequence: my back tension and my "cut-rope draw hand release pop-back."  I can do this drill just about anywhere ( at work).  It also develops muscle tone in your back, shoulders and fingers.  I find it very useful for my needs.  It's helpful to do this in front of a mirror too, to verify an erect (stress free) head position, and "pop back" of the draw hand upon "release".  

Accuracy improvement in any shooting sport is a journey.  It requires patience, a plan, recording notes (things you tried, and results), and future thoughts on shot/form analysis.  You'll improve with practice time and desire.

So, be patient.  Breakdown your shot sequence.  Don't try to make a "perfect shot."  Work on making "perfect form"-and the perfect shot will follow.

Another benefit from the drill of shooting at a vertical-horizontal line/intersection is that if you do it at various distances, you also learn about the gap (or trajectory) your arrow has above that aiming point, whether you shoot at 10, 15, 20, 25, or 30 yards.  Write down your gaps (arrow impact height about aiming point) with any arrow/tip weight at 10, 15, 20, 15, 30+ yards.  You will develop useful trajectory curves which will aid in "up/down" variables later.  It will also help you decide on the best compromise for selection of arrow shaft and tip weight.  A big reference point on these trajectory / gap curves is noting your nock position above perpendicular (higher nock, lower gap) for each distance/arrow shaft/tip weight etc.

There are excellent youtube videos available.  I like many, but Col. Jimmy Blackmon and Vabowdog (Dewayne Martin) have EXCELLENT videos on gapping and nock position for tuning ( I believe both were national trad archery champions in 3d or vegas targets, so they know what they are doing). Arnie Moe has several excellent videos on youtube on archery  form (he is a regular visitor/poster on this website-a great "local" resource.")

Shooting at a vertical line (or "point-on" at the tape  intersection), takes half the variables out.  You don't get distracted with up/down AND L/R issues.  To me, that's how you improve.  I was able to find things that were hurting my accuracy, as I had twice the focus on half the variables.  It works for me-and I still do it.

GO VERTICAL!  Good luck. Be patient.
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