"IBO Masters" Film just went live!

[ThePushArchery]

Our new project "The Push 1.3 - IBO Masters" just went live on our YouTube channel.

Enjoy an hour of some of the best non-sighted recurve and longbow shooters in the country review their technique and equipment.

 

[crazynate]

Sweet video. Interesting to see all the " modern" recurves and longbows these great shooters use. They look like fancy compounds without wheels. I don't know anything about tournament shooting but it looks fun. I'd definitely be out of place with my wooden bow and arrows lol. Maybe it's a different class idk

[ThePushArchery]

Crazy,

Yes, that would be Longbow class in the IBO organization. Calvin Smock is interviewed in this project, one piece longbow with wooden arrows. That's pretty much the main equipment restrictions for Longbow Class in IBO.

[joe ashton]

Thanks..
I do like to watch arrows fly.
And to see talented people doing what they love to do.
Joe  

[David Mitchell]

Don't see many hunting rigs there but those folks shoot mighty well.

[ThePushArchery]

David,

You're right, the competition rigs that reside at the top of the podiums greatly differ from a standard traditional hunting rig.

However, one thing holds true, a vast majority of the traditional competitive shooters in the IBO circuit and other major competition organizations started with a recurve or longbow in their hands chasing game in the woods. Desire to become a more proficient hunter is what drove a lot of competitive archers to explore competition archery.

There are some very accomplished traditional bowhunters featured in this film. And you're right, their competition rigs surely differ from what they walk in the woods with every year. At these major events, there are a lot of archers just getting into competitive archery, diving in and competing with their hunting rigs. That's how I started and the transition from competing with hunting equipment to more of a comp rig is a slow and steady transition. It sure is fun!!

Thanks!

[longbow fanatic 1]

Nicely done! I thoroughly enjoyed the film!

[crazynate]

I'd like to try one of those machines risers for target shooting. I'm going to look up on the internet and see when one of these shoots take place. It would be fun just to watch at least.

[ThePushArchery]

crazynate,

Please PM me if you have any questions or need any help getting going. Competition archery at the organizational level (IBO / NFAA / ASA) is extremely fun and challenging.

You won't find a single recurve or longbow competitor that isn't willing to drop everything and help you along. Best way to get involved is to sign up for a qualifying shoot in your area and dive in head first! You won't regret it!

Let me know if I can help.

[tecum-tha]

That looks more like bare bow shooting, besides Calvin Smock (system shooter nonetheless)
Their methods (three under, point on, gap whatever) work, but are unsatisfying, as there is the same going on what is going on in the compound and Olympic archery world.
A constant battle of more modern and "better" technical material to aid the shooter, one new and better something all the time etc.

The only fun event for an traditional archer is the IBO Trad World or Trad Championship West. Even though the hunters challenge course draws more shooters than the regular competition course.
The regular IBO events with all the modern classes is an "endless" waiting game and is what I consider "boring as hell". The organization at these events and everything around it is great.
Interesting to see was also at some of these events, that most shot distances for the technical classes were only a few yards (about 4-8) further than the traditional classes and that for itself is already funny. (I shot 2 Triple Crown events) That is like a flintlock with open sights shooting at 50 yards against a .308 centerfire scoped rifle at 55 yards.
In order to become a more proficient hunter, you need to hunt more and learn more about your quarry. In order to become a more proficient shooter, you need to shoot better.
So I think your argument, that they entered target competition to become better hunters is flawed.
It is a different game to get consistent close shots (become a better hunter), than to become a better shot and now shooting out to 25-35 yards instead of under 20 and pushing the "lethal" range with all undesirable side effects.
The goal for bowhunters to shoot in competitive settings is to use their hunting equipment(minus the broadhead) and not to use special competitive rigs. I would say, most of these rigs are barely good for whitetail and questionable for any larger game like elk or wild boar (besides piggies to about 100 lbs).
The second part why competitive shooting is not the best for bowhunters is the scoring system used. It does not allow or encourage good shot selection and thus helps you to become really a more proficient shooter with your "hunting equipment".

[ThePushArchery]

Tecum-tha,

Thanks for the reply. Glad you've attended some shoots, that's awesome.

I'll be honest though, we have differing opinions and I very politely disagree with most everything you wrote.

"A constant battle of more modern and "better" technical material to aid the shooter" - unless you're a selfbow shooter, this is happening all around us traditional bowhunters whether you like to believe it or not. More modern limb materials, arrow materials, broadhead designs.. you name it. Most of it gets introduced in the competition realm, proven out, adopted, then gets tweaked and repackaged for other facets of the sport. (i.e. bowhunting) If that weren't the case we wouldn't be shooting carbon arrows, higher performing limbs, etc. Even a very traditional bowhunting targeted company like Bob Lee / Stalker / Black Widow / etc continues to push the limits in their designs to aide the shooter.

"The only fun event for an traditional archer is the IBO Trad World or Trad Championship West. Even though the hunters challenge course draws more shooters than the regular competition course.
The regular IBO events with all the modern classes is an "endless" waiting game and is what I consider "boring as hell". The organization at these events and everything around it is great."

This is simply subjective. If you've qualified for a major tournament and have an opportunity to podium or passion for competing, I can assure you, its not boring. No different than the guy that shoots hoops in his driveway, to the guy who plays at the YMCA, to the guy who puts a team together and enters rec tournaments. Each level appeals to the individual.

"Interesting to see was also at some of these events, that most shot distances for the technical classes were only a few yards (about 4-8) further than the traditional classes and that for itself is already funny. (I shot 2 Triple Crown events) That is like a flintlock with open sights shooting at 50 yards against a .308 centerfire scoped rifle at 55 yards."

Each class competes within its own class and is measured against its own class. So I'm not 100% sure I get what you're saying here. So I apologize if I'm missing something.
Recurve Unaided Class - 12" Stab, elevated rest, clicker, stringwalking permitted - 33 yard max
Trad Class - No Stab, Must shoot off the shelf, no stringwalking allowed - 33 yard max
Longbow class - Wood arrows, longbow, off the shelf, no stringwalking allowed - 25 yard max

3 different classes, 3 different belt buckles / titles awarded.

"So I think your argument, that they entered target competition to become better hunters is flawed.
It is a different game to get consistent close shots (become a better hunter), than to become a better shot and now shooting out to 25-35 yards instead of under 20 and pushing the "lethal" range with all undesirable side effects.
The goal for bowhunters to shoot in competitive settings is to use their hunting equipment(minus the broadhead) and not to use special competitive rigs. I would say, most of these rigs are barely good for whitetail and questionable for any larger game like elk or wild boar (besides piggies to about 100 lbs).
The second part why competitive shooting is not the best for bowhunters is the scoring system used. It does not allow or encourage good shot selection and thus helps you to become really a more proficient shooter with your "hunting equipment"."

No doubt, woodsmanship is paramount for hunters. In my opinion, there are 3 guys involved in making the complete "hunter".
Guy #1: The Hunter - this guy takes care of all preseason scouting, knowing his quarry, becoming intimate with the environment. This guys knows he has done a good job and his duty is done as soon as guy number two starts putting tension on the string.
Guy #2: The Shooter - this guy takes over from the hunter as soon as that game snimal has presented the shot that guy #1 has worked so hard for. As soon as guy #2 does his job and the arrow has cleared the bow. He turns it over to guys #3.
Guy #3: The Tracker - this guys takes over while the arrow is in flight. Paying close attention to every detail of the hit location, animal reaction, environment, blood trail, minute details like broken twigs, wounded animal behavior while tracking. This guy is done when the game has been recovered or his experiences tell him that the animal will not be recovered.

Guy #1: The Hunter - gets to practice his craft for 3 to 4 months out of the year. (not including preseason scouting.
Guy #2: The Shooter - gets to practice 12 months per year.
Guy #3: The tracker - gets to practice 1 to 5 days per year, if he is lucky.

Lacking in skill by any one of the three guys could make the work of the others all for naut. However, Guy #2's duration of involvement is so short, and so critical, why not hone his skills through other means? So there are many, many things that competition archery brings to the table to help Guy #2. High pressure shooting environments, form work, exposure to different methods and approaches to essentially the same goal: put the arrow where it needs to go under high pressure. And most competitive guys don't go walking through the woods with their 4 lb mass weight, 70" 38 lb draw weight comp rigs chasing animals. Their hunting rigs fit into the standard "trad bow" genre we all know and love. But to say there is nothing to be gained for the hunter by competing? I feel you're cutting the comp world a little short there. But you're right, competition archery doesn't help Guy #1 or #3, except for the countless hunting stories and discussion we have while competing with each other on the long days on the courses      

Good luck and thanks so much. This is a good conversation and I'm glad we're having it. This was the sole purpose of putting this film together. Exposure of the sport.

[crazynate]

Thank you for offering to help me learn about these shoots.

[Friend]

Enjoyed the video.

Thank you for sharing.

[Keb]

Good videos, I am experimenting with other aiming methods than instinctive shooting.

While I love the instinctive method, if there is a better way than I owe it to give it a run.

The sole reason a modern archery is more accurate is a sight plain and simple.

[reddogge]

Great video. I do have a modern barebow rig with which I shoot NFAA field archery and indoor archery. Some loose sight of the fact that this is a competitive game, not hunting practice. These same shooters on here are world class competitors in not only IBO 3-D but WA field archery and indoor archery. There are plenty of local 3-D shoots around to shoot hunting bows and either keep score or just shoot for fun.

It never ceases to amaze me how some folks can take something very good and informative and twist some negative narrative into it.   I wouldn’t want to weigh the ivory, antlers and skulls against some of those guys you just saw in that video.

This is the shooters forum. What did all those great shooters and hunters have in common?  Form, consistency, and positive control over their minds and shot sequence.  A lot of us could learn a lot from them.  

Congratulations and thank you for another great video.  I look forward to seeing the next installment.

[OBXarcher]

Some people.... geesh

Loved everything about it.

Thanks for making this film and please keep it up!

[champ38]

Nice film.... Sure to watch it again. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[forestdweller]

I took a quick look at the video and that is not traditional archery.

That is modern barebow which is a step below Olympic Recurve.

Some of them appear to be using clickers and nearly all of them are using a target (straight bow no cant) stance with wrist slings.

The methods that they are using namely string walking are inferior to the traditional methods of shooting the bow such as split vision, instinctive, and snap shooting.

Not a big fan of it personally, looks too sporty and high tech and dare I say boring with the same target stance and string walk repeated shot after shot.

No variation or flair.

I'd personally like to see an archery tournament that has time limits, aerial targets, unmarked distances, and variations in elevation and targets that require you to modify your stance.

As it stands right now current target archery is very boring as they have the same stance, most of the time distances are known, and most of them take up to 30 seconds minimum just for one shot.

[McDave]

I enjoyed watching the IBO Masters video.  These are people who are taking the same concept we use, which is a bow and arrow unassisted by any mechanical advantage or sights, and doing whatever they can to remove any errors which might be introduced by the equipment.  I appreciate this as much as the other end of the spectrum, where people shoot bows and arrows they made themselves out of one piece of wood.  I also appreciate everything in between, which includes all the rest of us and the limitless little variations we make to our bows and arrows.

People want to know who is the best shot, and as long as they are competing with others who are using similar equipment, it is a fair contest.  I don't care how they stand or aim if they can get more arrows in the middle than the next guy.  That is the only little disagreement I have with our sport: if someone wants to string walk a self bow, more power to him.  I personally don't like string walking, and probably will never do it for that simple reason, but if someone can outshoot me using similar equipment and string walking, I'm not going to hold it against him.