Need some help/advice

[Brent S]

I apologize in advance for how long this will be but I have several questions that I obviously can't figure out on my own.
 
1.  I'm thinking about switching from split finger to three under.  Due to my lack of consistency lately, I think I'm going to give gap shooting a try and will need to go to three under to make my gaps smaller.  My question is:  a.  Should I have a nocking point above AND below the arrow nock?  b.  My bow is noticeably louder when shooting three under, so is it absolutely necessary to have a bow tillered for three under?

2.  I think I have a breakdown in my form somewhere but I can't figure it out.  As soon as I begin to draw the bow, my bow arm starts to shake.  It's a very noticeable shake at full draw.  At first I assumed I was over bowed but couldn't see how because I'm a pretty strong guy.  So I went to do some form work with my sons matthews genesis and noticed the same shake (it only has a 25 lbs draw weight).  Sunday, I took my 60# recurve and basically did a workout with it.   Drawing it over and over and over, then drawing and holding as long as i could.   I repeated this for around two hours.  I realized that once my muscles were completely exhausted, I wasn't shaking at all.  I was as solid as a rock.   So Im thinking that once my muscles were worn completely out my body started relying more on the bone on bone contact.   Does anyone have advice on how to prevent the shaking without exhausting my muscles first?  Or how to develop this bone on bone support?  I can't wear myself out in a tree waiting on a deer to walk by.

Again, I apologize for the lengthy questions but I'm struggling on my own and this place seems full of great and knowledgeable people.

[moebow]

Brent, Welcome to TG.  Your first post.  What is your experience level?  You mention lack of consistency "lately,"  compared to what?  Consistency is 99% form and execution not whether you shoot split or three under.  I'd suggest not changing anything until you figure out the shaking problem. Tiller won't be a problem for a while, just shoot the 25# bow.

A jump between 25# and 60# is HUGE!! Sounds to me like you are trying to rush to proficiency (may be wrong there but...).  Study some video on shooting a bow and compare that to what you are doing.

Without seeing you, (video) we can't really help much more.

Go to You Tube look for Jimmy Blackmon and my videos and see if they help.

Arne

[Brent S]

Thanks moebow.  I'm not exactly new, i was on here quite a bit a few years ago.  I started shooting a longbow back in 2009.  I did very well back then (i thought so anyway).   I lost all of my info after a deployment and kind of lost interest in shooting or hunting after that for a while.   Anyway, I got back into it last year but with a wheelie.  After shooting a recurve I remembered how much I actually loved shooting traditional.  So I started shooting trad again about two months ago.    

I agree with you, I need to figure out this shaking problem first.  But I dont know what's causing it.   I assume it's a form issue only because I was doing the same thing with a 25 pound bow as i was a 60 pound bow.  It was just weird that it went away when my muscles were exhausted.   So I'm assuming its a form issue.

[Brent S]

Oh, and I have watched all of his videos plus any other video I can find on YouTube as well as the masters of the barebow series and a few books.  I was hoping someone on here might have some additional information on what might be happening.

[Brent S]

And if you're Arme Moe, I've watched all of your videos, which I think are the best out there.  Seriously.

[cactus vic]

Dear Brent, I have to add my two bits worth as it may lead somewhere into more discussion. You mention your arm starts to shake under draw. And is still shaking at full draw. I am wondering if your elbow [locks]at full draw or if you still holding with muscle at full draw. Which is very different between the two. When your arm becomes exhausted and you revert back to bone on bone which I call locked elbow? does that help.

[Brent S]

I feel like my elbow is locked in place at full draw.  I cant notice a difference in my arm angle at all when I'm fresh or when my muscles were tired.  My wife is going to take some photos and videos tonight for me so maybe i can find the difference.

[Trenton G.]

I notice that I start to shake if I don't continue pulling through the shot the entire time. If I draw back and stop, I start to shake really bad, but as along as I continue with back tension the entire time, I'm rock solid.

[Dan Jones]

I hesitate to mention this, but . . . . a shaking bow arm is one of the symptoms I sometimes experience with target panic. In my case it lasts until I release the arrow or let down. The draw weight of the bow makes no difference in my experience. It's more likely to occur while attempting a longer shot than a shorter one. I sincerely hope that target panic is not what you are encountering.

[McDave]

Learning good form is a combination of being shown good form by someone who knows, and teaching yourself the fine points.  Volume 3 of Masters of the Bare Bow shows how to do that in front of a blank bale.

I recommend you start with your 25# bow and refine your form in front of a blank bale.  Each session focus on a different aspect of your form: body alignment, bow grip, bow arm, string arm, string hand, etc.  See what feels best when making very minor changes.  Notice what makes you shake more and what makes you shake less.  Work with the 25# bow until you can easily hold it for 20 seconds at full draw without shaking.  Breathe slowly in through your nose and out through your mouth as you hold.  I'll bet you're holding 20 seconds without shaking sooner than you would imagine.

When I read you post, I thought the same as Dan--anxiety.  If indeed that's the case, if you move up to about three to five feet from the target, it will subside.

[hart2hart]

Focus on your breathing patterns also.Deep breath when drawing and then how much (if any) you let out..SLOWLY.
That is what calms me.Just a little seems to settle my shoulders/chest and gets me in line..mentally and physically
Mike

[Brent S]

I really appreciate all of the input guys.  I think Dan is on to something.  I do notice the shaking is a LOT worse at 25 yards than it is at 5-10 yards. I'm glad you didn't hesitate to bring it up too much.   Breath control  is a great point also as well as all of the form advice.  You guys are awesome!

[Dan Jones]

Brent S,

My theory is that the shaking of the bow arm that I experience is the result of a conflict between my conscious effort to draw to anchor and my eye seeing the sight picture and signalling the brain to immediately release the arrow. But it's just a theory.

You might try drawing with your eyes closed to see if you have any shaking or not.

[Brent S]

Well, I got out and shot yesterday and today.  Started out shooting horribly with a very shaky bow arm.  Then I decided to just relax and have fun.  Started playing around, kind of goofing off and my shooting improved tremendously.  Also noticed my arm wasn't shaking near as badly.  My last group last night was a 4 shot group in which I busted 2 nocks at 25 yards.

Went back out with only two arrows today and still shooting great by just relaxing.  Hopefully I can continue this practice and see how things go on the 3D course soon when there's a little more pressure.  

Appreciate everyone's help and input.