Shoot better in the field than on target?

[ChuckC]

I am not that good, nor am I that driven to be.  I shoot all the time and my goal with each and every shot is a dead deer.  I want an arrow within a kill zone sized area of the target, what ever it is at the moment.  Lots of folks strive for perfection.  For me it's a "dead deer".

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by JR Chambers:
Ok, I guess I will be the oddball. I don't go for it. I think you are about the same on paper and 3D as you are on real animals.

NO...you are not the 'oddball'. For YOU that may be the case...but certainly not for all as we are all different.  Some fly rockets to the moon and others figure the trajectory....best not to switch them at countdown.

[monterey]

Originally posted by JR Chambers:
Ok, I guess I will be the oddball. I don't go for it. I think you are about the same on paper and 3D as you are on real animals.

I think opinion on this is going to come directly
From the opiners own shooting style.  I get the impression that most target shooters use a specific aiming system, such as gapping.  I tried gapping in '71 and '72.  At the time I worked on a masonry crew and had 20 minutes after lunch each day to practice on the sandpile used to mix mortar.  Gap shot at a paper cup every day and became as accurate on targets as I'd ever been.  At that time we were hunting Virginia whitetails exclusively from tree stands.  With all the time that allowed, my only shot on a deer went exactly where it was aimed.

But, back in Colorado in '73 and still hunting and stalking mule deer it didn't work as well for me.

But, if. I had continued to be a gap shooter I'd probably be in agreement with you.  Field shooting for me on Stumps or game tends to make each shot a highly focused intense process but it's also a very speedy process.  

It's not that I shoot so good in the field.  It's more that I shoot very poorly on paper.    

Shooting aerials can get a person thinking about shot process!

[Zwickey-Fever]

For me, when shooting paper targets, I develop target panic and can never just pick a spot. But when shooting at game, I can pick a spot, control my breathing, focus and release my arrow. Unless something like a 190 inch class buck comes down the path. Then, my heart rate is so jacked that I can hear my heart beating so hard that I think the deer can hear it. So there is a huge difference between paper and game. I am a firm believer that there is a huge difference between shooting paper, shooting 3D and shooting game. Lets be honest here, how many people here practice shooting in real hunting situations? Shooting from elevated positions? I can not speak for anybody else here, but when I shoot from a elevated position, my form is changed from when I shoot on flat ground. Shooting/practicing in a wooded area? Shoot/practice at game/3D in different angles? And for you who shoot from the blinds, do you practice sitting down, or shoot/practice from a actual blind? Or do you just stick your target or 3D target out in the back yard next to the fence? There is a lot to take into consideration here. Just my opinion.

[hawkeye n pa]

I agree that stumping seems to be way easier.   I also shoot on a stickbow night at the local club during winter and I'm usually somewhat consistent from year to year.  

But the last few years I've shot the outside course up to 60 yards.  To hit those 30 yard plus targets consistently  form has to be very consistent.  And that has really upped my stumping and 3D shooting.   I consider myself some what "instinctive" until point of aim shows up at 50 yards.

[monterey]

Originally posted by Roy from Pa:


I shoot better at 3D targets and stumping than paper bulls eyes. Something about a bulls eye that messes me up.

Hah, Roy it's probably because the paper is set in close proximity to the Coors light.  

[dbd870]

Originally posted by Sam McMichael:
I think that, once we get past the adrenaline rush, concentration is more intense in the woods.

I agree

[JohnV]

I have often heard the "shoots poorly in competition/field round but is deadly on game" comment.  I don't buy it.  It is my observation that guys/gals that fit that description wound a lot of game due to their poor shooting.  They may kill more simply because they are better hunters and get more close encounters and shooting opportunities, not because they somehow become better archers when confronted with a live target.

[KeganM]

I never got good in the woods until I put time in on targets. Hated it at first but it paid off with a full freezer ever since. Still love to stump shoot, still practice out of position and out of a tree, but I try to shoot paper a few times a month just to keep an eye on things. When I don't it shows.

All targets (rings, foam, or fur) are the same, but sometimes it gets into your head and throws you off. We put so much emphasis on form but not nearly enough on building a strong shot sequence and sticking to it on every shot. Usually when my shooting gets sloppy it's a mental thing. It's the reason folks get TP, or can't shoot in front of people, or suck on targets, or can't gap/aim, or blow chip shots in the woods. Focus is on the wrong stuff during the shot. The best shooters can keep their mind in their shot under pressure, regardless of how they aim, how they shoot, or how they practice. A strong mental is invaluable.

[Straitshot]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
"I know of one hunter, as will 99% of you would know him if I mentioned his name, who shoots TOTALLY instinctive and he will outright admit he SUCKS on targets. This guy sure is hell in the field though!!!"


I think this individual might very well be Fred Bear. Could be wrong but he personally stated he wasn't very good in his opinion at shooting tournaments, but I bet he was better than he wanted to say. Then again perhaps he spent a lot more of his time hunting, preparing for hunts, and making bows than he did shooting in tournaments.

I just like archery and shooting arrows with a stick and string so I like all aspects of it whether it is hunting or shooting targets. Whether shooting at animals or targets as an instinctive archer the concept is the same.

Sure the adrenaline rush is greater when shooting at an animal than shooting at targets and that is precisely why someone might be great at target shooting and suck at killing an animal.

Unless you are shooting at rats and squirrels the X ring on a target is quite a bit smaller that the kill zone on most game.

Like I said, I just like shooting arrows and whether it is shooting them at animals, stumps, cans, or targets, I like it all!

[Three Arrows]

I really suck on paper targets unless I put something in the center to focus on.  It simply does not lend itself to making me focus or concentrate enough for the way I shoot.  I see a bullseye as a round ball.  It is like looking at the whole animal and missing rather than concentrating on a spot on the animal.  My opinion is that people who deliberately hold and aim tend to do better on bullseye type targets.

It is harder for me to shoot paper in my backyard than on a course, too many cars driving by, gets me distracted.

[BlacktailBowhunter]

I've had similar experiences but the difference being great on small game but not good on big game. I talked to Mark Horne about it.

Mark explained to me that on small game you're targeting a small focal point whereas on big game you have to pick a specific spot, which I've struggled with in the past.

This year I did a few things to help me.

1. I put a clicker on my bow. I've got some target panick and it helped a lot with consistency.

2. I started shooting at a blank piece of card board and picking a spot to hit on a blank surface.

3. I set up a 3 d deer target and aim at a different spot every shot.

It seems to have helped but I'm always reading and ready to try new techniques if I think it will help me make better shots on game.

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by Straitshot:
Originally posted by Terry Green:
"I know of one hunter, as will 99% of you would know him if I mentioned his name, who shoots TOTALLY instinctive and he will outright admit he SUCKS on targets. This guy sure is hell in the field though!!!"


I think this individual might very well be Fred Bear.

BW    :D

[Keb]

I shot better at one shot move on type shooting.

If you think about shooting targets with multiple faces and dots and colors it's no difference than this:

When a basket ball player drains 3s, he is not shooting at 6 hoops/goals there is one rim.

Baseball pitcher not throwing to 3 catchers and mitts there is one mitt.

Quarter back is not throwing to 5 receivers running down the line and the kicker is not kicking thru 3 goals.

My opinion is you fight how u train.

The more we complicate our shooting process, the more complicated it gets when shooting at game.   I do not mechanically gap when shooting at game, I do take a visual snapshot at about six inches from full draw.  When trying to stack arrows in a target with all the time in the world, one is allowed to finagle around with exact point placements etc.  There are often more variables in hunting shots than most target based shooters want to admit. Many young  CP shooters around here talk of how they have difficulties putting close downward shots together at deer and end up taking a non-aimed guessstinct shot.  That rarely works, there needs to be some fundamentals ingrained, no matter if one holds or shoots fluidly.

[KeganM]

Target shooting is hard. Takes a lot of consistency and mental toughness to actually score well consistently. If you put the effort in to get good at it, it will make you a better shot. Doesn't mean it should be the only way to practice, but it's not a bad thing.

[forestdweller]

Another thing is that personally and I think a  lot of us are like this, if we go out and take a shot at 25 to 30 yards we will hit the center or close to the center of the target on our first shot within those 25 to 30 yards without any problem.

Now here's the kicker, none of our shot's are going to be as good as that first shot.

When you take that second shot your body is still recovering from the first one mentally and you are now pressured to shoot just as well as your first shot.  

Not to mention we are pressuring ourselves by shooting groups.

If during our first shot we are at 100% and give the shot 100% during the second shot when there's pressure to group well than our second shot might only be a 60% shot since there is mental pressure applied to that shot.

For me personally I shoot the best groups when my mental toughness is the highest and I believe in myself 100%.

If any doubt enters the mind the chances of me missing goes up astronomically.

During the first shot this pressure does not really exist.

This is why I believe one can be a great hunter and not be good at grouping or shooting paper.

I'd have to say that target shooting is at least 90% mental once you have good form and are consistent.

I'd have to say that right now I can hit the center of the target within 30 yards on my first shot without any issue.

However, if I have to shoot a group at those distances it might take me at least an hour to shoot a tight 3 arrow group (softball sized) because I have not made that 30 yard shot my 15 yard chip shot yet.

When practicing longer shots, i load 12 to 18 arrows in my back quiver, i use two four foot targets with several spots each.  I shoot three or four, take a short breather then another three or four.    After a while a rhythm kicks in and I stop making a big deal out of it all, the imaginary secondary just happens, the slight hesitation at anchor becomes automatic and the thing becomes routine.    I can shoot hundreds of arrows in a fairly short time doing this.  Maybe it is completely wrong, but it works for me.

[Terry Green]

k butler

Calling people liars on this forum will get you booted off pretty quick.  Why don't you contact Barry Wensel and call him a liar directly?