Anyone else can't shoot paper well?

[forestdweller]

I shot my first 20 yard NFAA a couple of day's ago and could not shoot worth a crap. I shot around a 180 and the next day shot a 199 and was very frustrated.

I started to switch shooting styles and resorted to trying out snap shooting which only made my score worse.

Today I said screw shooting paper and put out some tennis balls on top of my target and nailed one from 36 paces on my first attempt and was shooting tight groups at 20 paces chasing nocks.

It seems like for me scoring myself and shooting 2D objects like paper makes me shoot like crap and I start flinching and thinking in terms of points yet if I have an object that is small my accuracy increase tremendously and I'm not worried about a score or anything.

I used to think that being able to shoot 60 arrows in a tight group like the NFAA round meant you were not overbowed but this shooting paper for score stuff had made me a believer that the only shot that really counts is your first shot.

What are your thoughts?

[newhouse114]

Shooting paper WILL improve your form and consistency IF you apply yourself to it. I just shot in the Oregon State NFAA indoor the other day, shot like crap in my opinion, and broke the state longbow record by over 30 points! Tournament jitters is my only excuse. Before season opens I will be shooting around 1000 arrows a week, both at paper and at 3D targets. Building muscle memory helps in the crunch time of hunting.

[mwosborn]

Originally posted by forestdweller:
this shooting paper for score stuff had made me a believer that the only shot that really counts is your first shot.

What are your thoughts?

Not if your shooting paper!    :D    

[BWallace10327]

I have a tendency to shoot poorly in a score is attached.  NFAA 300 is tough.  I have been shooting that target face for several years and finally broke 200 just this past January and I had already taken multiple big game animals.  The same goes with 3d too.  I shoot poorly in the situation.  I guess if 199 is a bad indoor score I'll live happily with being a lousy shot that fills tags.

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by newhouse114:
Shooting paper WILL improve your form and consistency IF you apply yourself to it. I just shot in the Oregon State NFAA indoor the other day, shot like crap in my opinion, and broke the state longbow record by over 30 points! Tournament jitters is my only excuse. Before season opens I will be shooting around 1000 arrows a week, both at paper and at 3D targets. Building muscle memory helps in the crunch time of hunting.

I believe that for some people shooting tournament paper target archery for surely helps improve their accuracy. For people like myself that are extremely competitive and care about the the final score it can cause things like wanting to change the way that I shoot, becoming frustrated, target panic since I want to hit nothing but 5's, and comparing my scores to others. All of these things are detrimental to someone like me.

Honestly the best way that I have improved is from hitting the smallest targets possible (tennis balls, golf balls, etc etc) from exceedingly further distances, focusing on small aspects of my form, chasing nocks, and stump shooting.

I feel like the known distance aspect shooting like the NFAA 300 is also not much of a help since it is extremely rare for someone to end up with hunting shot's that are the exact same distance (in this case, 20 yards) as being the majority of their hunting shots.

I feel as though someone should come up with an unknown distance one shot round or possibly a round that is shot from set distances but only one arrow is allowed per distance.

I'm also not trying to downgrade the big tournament shooters that string walk or shoot these at a high level but some of these guys take a few seconds to "crawl" their string and hold at full draw for 5 seconds easily which can be very rare in a hunting situation.

That being said I will continue to shoot the round but will not take my scores seriously because I do believe it is helpful endurance wise.

The score tracking and looking at your score can be very disheartening and cause you to lose confidence which is a huge factor in your shooting ability which can effect your accuracy big time.

Just my $0.02.

[BWallace10327]

I recommend different hats to shoot with. This pertains to shooting expectations, as I have known, reasonable expectations for my indoor rounds, 3d rounds, practice and hunting shots.  It may not seem reasonable, but these things are each very different to me and a good shot in one situation means very little in the next.

[McDave]

The secret of shooting paper well is to shoot it with the same mindset as if you were shooting a tennis ball on a string.  No score, no consolation 3's or 4's, you either hit it or you don't.  You're happy when you hit it, but you don't beat up on yourself when you don't, because you know it's a hard shot and you don't expect to hit it that often.  

The best shooters I know have that mindset when they shoot paper or 3D for scores.  They are not trying to hit a bullseye, they are trying to execute the best shot they can each and every time they shoot an arrow.  Hitting a bullseye is something that happens in the future, after the arrow leaves the bow, when we no longer have any control over it.  Executing the best shot we can is something that happens in the here and now, and can be controlled as it is happening.

I think we all know that.  I have had the honor and privilege of shooting with a number of top shooters who are able to have that level of control of their minds.  Any of them could look at me shoot, identify my form errors, and tell me what I need to do to correct them.  What nobody I'm aware of can do is to tell me how to eliminate extraneous thoughts and focus all of my attention on the execution of my shot.  That seems to be something that each of us has to figure out for ourself.

[KeganM]

Paper sucks. It's an honest, unforgiving, no-BS test of consistency. Has nothing to do with the bow, arrows, aiming style, what have you; it's all about how consistent the archer is. It's brutal.

When I first tried paper my expectation was that my score would be above average. Nope. First two weeks I couldn't break 190. It was a very slow crawl from there to 220 over the course of the next year. It was more than two years before reaching 240. I had developed a LOT of bad habits from just trying to emulate the bowhunting greats.

Paid off, though. I can now see the difference between good shots and lucky ones. Made me realize what real accuracy was. Then seeing others excel with different techniques and styles of gear inspired me to up my game even further. I'm still improving, much more slowly now, but it's a lot more fun. My hunting success has exceeded my expectations, too!

[BWallace10327]

Originally posted by KeganM:


When I first tried paper my expectation was that my score would be above average. Nope. First two weeks I couldn't break 190. It was a very slow crawl from there to 220 over the course of the next year.

 

Must be rough  

[BWallace10327]

[longbow fanatic 1]

Like others have said, NFAA 40 CM target shooting is very tough. I, too, have been shooting 300 rounds this winter. It took me a lot of shooting, focusing on form errors to go from 230's to 250's. Some days, I just don't shoot well and the harder I try to correct whatever form errors are causing errant shots, the worse it gets. As Dave said, I try to focus on making a good shot, trusting the process and not the results. As Kegan also pointed out, I now know when I make a strong, good form shot, whether the arrow impacts exactly where I was aiming of not. Conversely, I also now know when I make a less than quality shot, even if the arrow impacts exactly where I was aiming. Sometimes it frustrates me more to see my arrow impact where I was aiming when I know I didn't make a good form shot.

All of this said, some archers just enjoy shooting at tennis balls, chasing nocks, etc. That's fine too. It's all about what brings out the joy of archery to each individual archer. Your comment, Forest, about the only shot that counts is the first one is certainly true in the hunting realm. In the target archery world, the mindset is that the most important shot is the arrow you're shooting, each and every one of them.

IMO, shooting spots develops strong form which translates to good hunting accuracy. The benefits of muscle memory translate to improved hunting accuracy. I recently shot with a very renowned, world class archer. When he shoots, he holds the bow back for a long time, probably six to ten seconds on each and every shot while shooting spots. He is also a very accomplished hunter. When he hunts, his shots on game animals are much quicker than the way he shoots targets. He relies on muscle memory to help him execute a  strong, accurate hunting shot, essentially doing everything he does while shooting spot targets-Just doing it quicker on game.

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by KeganM:
Paper sucks. It's an honest, unforgiving, no-BS test of consistency. Has nothing to do with the bow, arrows, aiming style, what have you; it's all about how consistent the archer is. It's brutal.

When I first tried paper my expectation was that my score would be above average. Nope. First two weeks I couldn't break 190. It was a very slow crawl from there to 220 over the course of the next year. It was more than two years before reaching 240. I had developed a LOT of bad habits from just trying to emulate the bowhunting greats.

Paid off, though. I can now see the difference between good shots and lucky ones. Made me realize what real accuracy was. Then seeing others excel with different techniques and styles of gear inspired me to up my game even further. I'm still improving, much more slowly now, but it's a lot more fun. My hunting success has exceeded my expectations, too!

That's great that it worked for you but honestly I went out today and was shooting tight groups just chasing nocks but once I put the paper target up I missed my entire target about 3 times out of 5 arrows which is unheard of for me especially at 20 yards.

I can't hold steady and start holding for far too long and end up paying too much attention to my arrow point when shooting paper.

Afterwards I started snap shooting again thinking that I had to change my shooting completely and ended up getting very frustrated before calling it a day.

Before you know it I'll be shooting one of those FITA Olympic rigs and walking the string just to increase my score (which would ruin archery for me since it takes the fun out of it).

I'll just stick to stumping and shooting small targets since the whole competitive mindset of keeping score and shooting for 5's ruins my accuracy. I start worrying about score, I start flinching, holding for far too long, and over analyzing everything which is counter productive.

I do believe that it helps others with their shooting but it definitely isn't doing anything for me.

[longbow fanatic 1]

Forest,

Do what makes you happy, brother. That's all that matters. Last year, I kept score at local 3-D's most all year long. I shot some good scores and some not so good scores. In the end, it seemed like all that mattered to me was the final score. On the days that I didn't keep score, including the 3-D I shot yesterday, I had way more fun. This summer, I may try not to keep score and just enjoy archery for what it is. Pure, simple in equipment and, most importantly, FUN!

[mahantango]

For me, it's not the paper that's the problem - it's shooting in a line elbow to elbow with 16 other archers. The background chatter of the spectators, the constant smack of arrows hitting the butts and the noise of compounds discharging (it's a mixed league) all conspire to utterly ruin my concentration, make me freak and try to release quickly before the guy beside me fires his next shot. Then there's the night when there's a lefty beside you, face to face, 12" apart with a tricked  out compound with a two foot stabilizer and you're trying to cant your bow... Sorry for the rant.

[McDave]

I kind of enjoy keeping score, but I also enjoy shooting just for fun.  What I don't enjoy is shooting in a line of people who are way too close together for my comfort, like Paul mentions above.  I tried an indoor league once.  The first thing that happened was that a range official came over to tell me that I was impinging on the person's space next to me when I loaded my arrows, so I had to quickly learn to hold my bow vertical when I was nocking an arrow.  I lasted that night and the next session, but then I dropped out: it was just too stressful for me.

[forestdweller]

Originally posted by McDave:
I kind of enjoy keeping score, but I also enjoy shooting just for fun.  What I don't enjoy is shooting in a line of people who are way too close together for my comfort, like Paul mentions above.  I tried an indoor league once.  The first thing that happened was that a range official came over to tell me that I was impinging on the person's space next to me when I loaded my arrows, so I had to quickly learn to hold my bow vertical when I was nocking an arrow.  I lasted that night and the next session, but then I dropped out: it was just too stressful for me.

Oh wow, that's screwed up that you have to hold your bow vertical. Some bow's (namely longbows such as mines) are not even cut to center and if shot from a straight vertical position will shoot slightly to the right of where the point is pointing to.

[Mark R]

Interesting comments all, I myself get bored, with shooting regulation paper targets, I'd much rather stump shoot or throw plastic bottles or different size objects around and shoot at them. Whatever makes you happy. How many have shot the interactive game, where you use the special tips to shoot at a special screen at moving animals in realistic hunting situations,I usually do that a few times before Deer and turkey season, I enjoy  it and it also keeps score on your hits and misses.Luckily a shop not to far from me has the game.

[KeganM]

Originally posted by forestdweller:
That's great that it worked for you but honestly I went out today and was shooting tight groups just chasing nocks but once I put the paper target up I missed my entire target about 3 times out of 5 arrows which is unheard of for me especially at 20 yards.

I can't hold steady and start holding for far too long and end up paying too much attention to my arrow point when shooting paper.

Afterwards I started snap shooting again thinking that I had to change my shooting completely and ended up getting very frustrated before calling it a day.

Before you know it I'll be shooting one of those FITA Olympic rigs and walking the string just to increase my score (which would ruin archery for me since it takes the fun out of it).

I'll just stick to stumping and shooting small targets since the whole competitive mindset of keeping score and shooting for 5's ruins my accuracy. I start worrying about score, I start flinching, holding for far too long, and over analyzing everything which is counter productive.

I do believe that it helps others with their shooting but it definitely isn't doing anything for me.

It worked out eventually but I had to work on it. It's tough. I'd been shooting for five or six years before I tried paper and it was another few years before I got decent at it. My scores are still nothing special... and that's just in my yard! 90% of my practice is stumping/yard shooting. Maybe 1% is paper.

From the sounds of it the last thing you should do is change your gear. That won't help your score if the paper is giving you anxiety. Try shooting without keeping score at first, just focusing on making the same shot as you would on any other target. Just imagine the 5 ring as a tennis ball. I mean, let's be honest- if you're missing the target then it's probably not your shooting, but rather the mental game. The paper is stressing you out, and learning to overcome stress is a big help when hunting (I know my heart gets pounding pretty hard when a whitetail starts getting close).

Keep after it. As they say, nothing worth doing is easy!

[reddogge]

As I've said before, it's an archery game, an acquired taste, not hunting or stumping practice. Totally different mindset. It takes practice and discipline to shoot close to someone else. I have to admit I've never shot to the left of a lefty. Sometimes you can put yourself at the extreme right end of the line to minimize uneasiness. I will say the more you do it the more comfortable you'll become.

You have approx. 24" to the next guy's back so you must learn to load your bow fairly vertical so you don't poke him in the back. You can cant the bow when you shoot as long as it's not severe. You just can't encroach on another's space.

[Trenton G.]

I am terrible at paper shooting. Unfortunately, the only target I have I share with my dad and brother, both compound shooters, and it is covered with dots. I can't shoot at it worth a darn, and I'm just as, if not more likely to hit a dot on the other side of the target than the one that I'm aiming at. Shooting 3D animals is much easier, and stumps even easier. Paper and dots just confuse me and get in my head. I don't know why. It's always another weapon in my dads arsenal of arguments against trad bows when he watches me try and hit a paper dot, but I keep shooting anyways.