Gun Barreling

[not on the rug]

Thank you Arne.  That's what I'm looking for.  I have been and will continue to work on my form.  Obviously for all forms of archery, form is paramount.

I'll continue with this for the time being.

Should I be focusing on anything at all in terms of aiming? Or just pointing at the target and letting it fly?

I guess what I'm asking is should I be looking for something in particular to know when it's time to move forward?  How will I know that my form is good and consistent if I'm not aiming at anything in particular and not shooting groups?

Thanks again

[moebow]

Again, start CLOSE and just point bow hand at center of the bale.  Learn how the "T" feels with the full weight of the bow at full draw. Learn to hold bow arm still, string hand should come straight back off the string (no flipping of the hand), feel the bow weight in the back not the arm. Just shoot one arrow to start. AND have the bale at shoulder height.

JUST get comfortable with the shot to start.  THEN, after a week or so of that move the bale back a little and repeat.  Move back again, repeat.  As you approach 5 or 6 yards, shot 2 arrows, again just bow hand pointing at center of bale.  IF you start banging arrows together move back again.  A little at a time!

If you can, post a video so I (we) can see what you are doing that will help a lot!

Don't rush it, this is not a one or two practice thing but several sessions as you move back. Always just pointing the bow hand at the center of the bale.

The tough part of this is IF you want to get good, you do NOT judge your shooting (at this point) by shooting for results.  If you are being consistent, you will get groups even if not shooting at a specific point.  When you get groups, then will be the time to start "aiming."  Not before.

Arne

[McDave]

Incorporating the discipline of the blank bale into your learning routine is useful because it allows you to focus on a single aspect of your form.  For example, you can try six different variations of your grip and focus on how each feels.  One of the things that none of us has completely mastered is awareness of what all the parts of our body are doing during the shot process.  This awareness is what enables you to know what went wrong with a shot, and how to fix it on the next shot (or better, to not shoot the shot if you catch it in time).  Awareness is gained by physically focusing on distinct shot elements as independently as possible, repetitively, and without the interference of cognitive thoughts or value judgements.  This is best done with a blank bale.  Trying to hit a mark when you’re trying to expand your awareness is a distraction and slows the learning process.

That said, few of us in the Western culture could resist flinging a few arrows at a bullseye or a pinecone, even when we may not be quite “ready” to do that.  I don’t see how this hurts anything; just be aware that your real learning is taking place in front of the blank bale.

[McDave]

I have always been very curious, and have explored as many different shooting styles as I can find.  My tendency early on was to treat them like a menu in a Chinese restaurant: take an element of one person’s style from column A and one from another person’s style from column B.  

Later, I found that a “style” consists of a group of elements that work well together, but don’t necessarily mix well with elements of someone else’s style.  My advice would be to learn one style completely, and if you want to study a different style, learn it completely and separately.  There are elements of good form which all styles seem to have in common, but there are other elements which are unique to a particular style, and don’t mix well with other styles.

Maybe after you become an expert you can develop your own style, which contains some of the unique elements of other styles and a few of your own, but it is best not to do this during the learning process.

[not on the rug]

Thanks for those last few posts guys.  

Arne- I'll work on starting a few feet away from the target and do what you recommended.

McDave-Understanding our bodies is something that fascinates me.  I'm a health and fitness nut, as well as someone who studies and attempts to live in as "zen" of a manner as possible.  I meditate daily and one of those meditations is a simple body scan where I focus on and devote a breath or two to every single inch of my body, becoming aware of it and allowing it to be what it is.  I feel like this sort of mentality has allowed me to become a better archer (as well as a better person.)  I will try to be mindful of my entire body for each shot that I take.  

What you describe is basically a body scan throughout the shot process. That makes a lot of sense to me.  In shooting my compounds, it's a far more simplistic process.   Sure, everything needs to be done correctly, but there is feedback from the bow throughout the entire process.  Multiple anchors, kissers, peeps, sights, levels, etc.  With a stick and string, I need to be far more aware of everything because none of those external feedback systems exist.  

I will keep things as basic as possible and just allow myself to be a man shooting a bow.  Nothing more and nothing less.  I'm sure I'll give in to tempation here and there and plink at some bullseyes too.  

Thanks again guys

[Jackpine Boyz]

Please don't bash me off the site, but I see a lot of people get hung up on this transition.  It sort of like fishing with a bait caster vs a fly rod.  You need to relearn some stuff, and will never "beat" the bow.  The journey is part of the process.  
Form is key, ALL great archers have great form.  Even a casual form like Fred Asabell  has a reproducible "T".  So always include the form in whatever approach you are taking, and low poundage for practicing.

The other big thing is don't get hung up on filling some stereotype with your bow/style.  If you love the bow, but want to be really accurate really fast... put a site on it (gasp!!!)  Plenty of people with longbows/recurves have sights and even peeps and stabilizers.  Look at all the bear bows from the 60's.  People used to pay the factory to paint them and then drill and mount sites, now we are starting the paint off and throwing out the sites.  The point isn't to get a site necessarily, but don't let it overwhelm you.  I struggled a long time because I felt that a longbow meant instinctive and fast shooting.  Now I playing with gap and split vision.  

In your case, you could run a sight and even a peep for a few months.  This will allow you to get used to establishing a draw at full poundage, a split finger or three under loose (please don't release an arrow, that is active motion and you'll pluck the string), learn to shoot a constant anchor without  a back stop, and with a site you'll also develop some understanding on the holds involved with split/gap/instinctive.  When you are ready for the next step, loose the peep, then the sight.  Or keep em if you like em.  If using a peep be sure that the peep fits you, not the other way around which leads to the wheelie bow head nuzzle.

Six years ago when I got heavy into the tradbows, I would have blown this off, but I also worried too much about preconceived ideas of what it meant to shoot a longbow.

Defiantly focus on the mechanics.  Arne has been a great mentor to me, and his videos are excellent on explains the olympic style (BEST system) adapted to trad bows.  Most compound friends I know were surprised how much there from improved just messing with my longbows for fun in deer camp.  A stick and string will show you everything you mess up in your form.  For me the big thing was PROPER back tension with shoulder rotation.  I used the muscles was took a long time to quite using my bicep when drawing.  Form Master is a great and simple device to use for this.

Sorry for the long rant, but remember the journey is yours, don't let it overwhelm you.  The advice earlier in this post is all excellent and  well intended.  

If you like the mechanics side of this, Arne is great with olympic style as is Rod Jenkins.
Archery Anatomy is also great book on mechanics involved.

[mahantango]

Thanks guys for a extremely informative thread!

[rutro]

not on the rug said;  

I'm a health and fitness nut, as well as someone who studies and attempts to live in as "zen" of a manner as possible.

I've been on that same path for 47 years. Be the arrow says it all. One book I read that changed the way I did a lot of things was "The Zen of Seeing" and it allowed me to understand how a lot us miss what is there when we look at different aspects of our world. The way we do what we do .... don't be the bow , be the arrow.   :cool: