'Nuther Buffalo Question

[LBR]

Well, I have found out a few things since I decided to do this hunt--arrows that are super heavy and high spined are rare, and there is very little information on the web (that I could find anyway) about hunting them, especially with a longbow.  Not that I don't trust the information I have gotten from Rick and Cory (thanks a million guys), but I want to talk with as many as I can about it.  Heck, I've even logged onto an Austrailian traditional archery site and asked, and about the only thing I can get is you need a large set of......well, you get the picture.  

Anyhow, here is my question (actually a few of them)--how large is the kill zone, and how large is the main spot you want to hit?  How far is the average shot?  Don't have my bow yet, still not sure what arrows or broadheads I am going to use, but it's about all I can think about.  I want to be as prepared as possible for this.

Thanks in advance,

Chad

[Steve O]

Chad,

Get the book "Perfect Shot" Africa.  It has been out a long time, and show the vitals of most African game accurately.  They have a NA versoin now as well.  I know Safari Press and Cabela's have it.

[LBR]

Cool--I would imagine that the water buffalo and Cape buffalo have basically the same anatomy?

Chad

[Rick McGowan]

Chad, congratulations! You found out on your own the same things that I found out 5 years ago, some guys don't bother to put in that much effort. I recommend that everyone starts working on their arrows at least a year ahead.
I found NO valid information about asiatic water buffalo 5 years ago and very little about bowhunting for cape buffalo. I too tried contacting people in Australia and the only info I got was a warning not to hunt with one well known outfitter there, good info by the way. I did get BAD advice from a bowhunting consultant here.
I recommend that guys shoot for the top of the heart, lots of high pressure plumbing there and the heart is the size of a basketball. A little low is still in the heart and good, a little high is still in the lungs. A buffalo is hugh, mos guys think they are closer than they are, but still think about the size of a full sheet of ply wood and you won't be far off. The kill zone? Its tough to answer, I'd say the heart and lungs cover a two foot circle, but you want to put your arrow close to the center. Shot distance, we had several at ten yards this year, but that is really TO CLOSE, in both those cases the buffalo happened to walk towards the stalking hunters. It is very difficult to get closer than 35 or 40 yards, but possible. I depends on the particular buffalo and where he is at. Herd bulls and almost impossible for bow hunters without a LOT of luck, just to many eyes and noses. Rick

[LBR]

Well, I've never been accused of being the sharpest knife in the drawer (anyone considering chasing one of these 4-footed tanks with a bow can't be all there anyhow    ), but I'm gonna' find out all I can before I go.  One of the benefits of having to wait and save--I have more time to experiment, research, and practice.  Found a guy in NV that shoots 150#+ bows and is about to start making arrows--he said he can do up some woodies that will meet the specs for weight and spine.  He is going to send me a sample of his work--might be just what I am looking for.  I plan on trying out the Grizzly Sticks also.  E-mailed about the Forgewood, he said he isn't even taking any orders for several months, Troy is way behind on his hickory shafting and isn't sure when he will run across some that will spine out heavy enough, so right now it is looking like I am down to two choices on arrow shafts, aside from experimenting with a shaft inside a shaft (really hope to avoid that part).  I'll probably drive you guys nuts before the time gets here--figure I'll get progressively worse as it draws near--lol.

I was really suprised at the lack of information on the Aussie site--they even got pictures of a guy and a camel he took with his longbow--but hardly anything about the buffalo.  Maybe these guys have more sense than to hunt them?  Oh well.....I don't!  lol  Thanks again for all the information--shoot, I probably wouldn't have even known about them if not for this board!  Thanks for bringing it up (I think  :confused:  ).

Chad

[Rick McGowan]

Chad, don't forget that there a lot fewer people in OZ, less than 1/20th of the US pop. and bowhunting isn't as popular, so there are a lot less bowhunters. Also the buffalo are in a relatively small and remote area, at least the good concentrations are and most of the land in the area belongs to the aborigine's, so no trespassing is allowed. We traveled a long way this year into the NT and were very surprised at how little buffalo are in most of it. We found out that the area we hunt is very special.
When you are working on those arrows, don't forget that shaft diameter has a BIG effect on penetration. Rick

[Jock]

Chad,
If you're looking for company on this adventure, drop me an email.

[Caranthir]

Chad, go to the Ribtek home page and you can get the address of Col Graham, the maker of Ribtek broadheads and write him in regards to buffalo as he has taken some as have others ther with longbows. He should be able to provide you with alot of information in regards to hunting them. Luck Rich

[LBR]

Thanks Caranthir--I hadn't thought of that.  I dropped Dan Simmons and e-mail to see if he knows of a faster way to get in touch with the good Col. before I send off a letter.

Jock, did you get the e-mail?

Chad

[erron]

LBR,

Basalt (Bill Baker) will I'm sure, gladly help you out with any queries. He's one of the all round good guys on Ozbow; trouble is he isn't around a lot to answer questions as he hunts so often! Just email or pm him, I'm sure he'll be glad to help.

Sorry we couldn't get more info for you sooner, but the site's only been up a few months and we're not widely known yet.

Erron

[Scott Smith]

I really don't know much about water buffalo.
However the bison here in MT. the spine is real
low but they have great big lungs. I shot a 1900
bull with a 60# flatbow and cedar brested shafts.
I used a 160 grain magnus 2 bladed point. I had
to take him at 32 yards because he smelled trouble
and tried to hide in his herd. They are the most
cautious animal I've ever hunted. I had a shot
a lot closer but I didn't have the nerve to shoot
him looking at me at 10 steps. I backed away and
then the big fellow knew something was up. I think
the grizzly stiks are the answer if your on the
ground, I love wood but your hide is at steak.
                              Shoot Straight,
                                     4fletch

[Jock]

Chad,
Had your email, was taking it all in before I answered, now I've lost it somehow, could you send me your email address again please?

[Randy Cooling]

LBR , I was just in Australia in august. I shot a buff on the 4th day with a 80# Black Widow. If you would like to discuss some buff hunting with me you can call me at 734-424-0888. Good Luck.

[SilverTip]

hey chad, i own a small tool & die company, theres all kinds of stuff out there that people dont know about, that you can use for a core on your alum arrows, one comes to mind is UHMW it comes in all round sizes. its a very dense and flexable plastic material, with alot of weight.
i'll probably see you at the KK, we can talk there. ill be glad to help you try a few things, i have alot of time on my hands, when the work slows up. im pretty sure that we talked on the hunting.net site. i go by silvertip70 there. just let me know, i might have some of that stuff laying around just beggin to get stuffed a arrow. lol. ya never know, it might turn into making a little money    sounds liike there might be a market for arrows like this. takecare friend.

[Rick McGowan]

I have spent a LOT of time searching through things that might work inside an arrow and its a lot more difficult than it might seem. For heavy poundage, it just can't add weight it has to add spine as well and most materials that aren't made for arrow shafts don't care about that. Also getting things that are the right size ain't that easy. Rick

[SilverTip]

i agree rick, what im tryin to say is theres all kinds of materials that have not been tried, have you ever thought about solid material to keep the dia. of the shaft down. there are many alloys out there that are tougher than alum. you could use. like you said matching the spine would be a task. but im sure with some research it could be done.im just saying anytime someone wants to try it, id be willing to help. free of charge. we have several different machines here that can do some freaky stuff, lol. this UHMW i was talking about comes in .006 increments. it would shear to exact size of the inside dia of the arrow. just buy pressing it in. these are just my thoughts, i have'nt talked to my engineers yet about this. they just love when i bother them with my personal projects, lol. hope i didnt offend anyone offering to help. im sure you guys have forgot more than i know about buff hunting. takecare. God Bless

[Rick McGowan]

Billy, yep, believe me I have been working on this heavy arrow thing very heavily for about 6-7 years. I have even talked to most of the shaft manufacturers and have a LOT of one of a kind shafts here. I have given a lot of time to solid materials, fiberglass, aluminum, carbon etc. The problems were low spine, getting heads to fit and balance. With solid materials it tough to get the weight forward without ending up with a 1500 grain arrow like Monty. I don't want to discourage you though, we can use all the help we can get. I don't have access to a machine shop anymore or there are a couple other things I might try. After this season is over I may ask if you can help me out. Rick

[SilverTip]

no problem rick, i love to tinker, i dont get to hunt as much as some of you guys, because of my work.  but i truly love to shoot my silvertips, just got a new one in. its a 70lb with fast flite string, this fast flite stuff is new to me, kinda scary. im using a 2219 29" with a 125 head. the charts say it will hold up. but would like to get your opinion on what you think. Paul Schafer told me not to use fast flite when it first came out on any of my bows, but things have changed now. all i know is that its a rawdawg. i love it. paul taught dave very well. takecare, God Bless

[Rick McGowan]

Billy, no problem using fastflight AS LONG AS THE BOW WAS BUILT FOR IT. Some bows are not. The tips need to be reinforced or the fastflight will try to cut through at the string grooves.
I've used a setup similar to yours for years, the 2219 is my favorite aluminum shaft. The only suggestion I could make is that a 125 head is a bit light for the 2219, if you can use a heavier head or adaptor and still have enough spine you will have a more forgiving arrow. The 2219 is one of the heaviest shafts available and needs the heavy heads to do its best. Rick

[SilverTip]

thanks rick, ill look around and try it. im getting good flight right now. but always looking for better. all we hunt around here in kentucky are whitetails. i know im kinda over geared. but theres just something about the feel of a heavey bow. love shooting them. thanks a million. billy