elephants with a bow?

[WLThomas IV]

Anybody know of anyone who has killed an elephant with a bow? Didn't Monty Browning do it?

[Rick McGowan]

Yeah it been done, but Monty hasn't done it, at least not yet. He was going to, but at the moment it has fallen through. It has been done by several people, one of them did it while I was in S. Africa, but I wasn't present at the time. They did a lot of testing and came to the conclusion that if you hit a rib, you were done, because they could not get an arrow through a rib and the chances of hitting a rib are about 50/50. Rick

[WLThomas IV]

Thanks for the quick reply Rick. I substitute teach, long-term, along with three other jobs. All this darn work is getting in the way of my hunting too. But anyway, I had several kids today looking at my bowhunting mags, since we really don't have enough time to start anything else before Christmas break. Several were really impressed with the animals that could be taken with a bow and arrow and I told them that to my knowledge, most all large (land) animals in the world, including elephants and rhinos have been taken with a bow. One kid didn't believe elephants could be taken that way and we had a discussion about it. He's still not convinced. I told him Howard Hill had done it and I thought Monty Browning had but obviously I was wrong about that one. Also, I saw an article about some fellow shooting a 90# Compound I believe that had shot one and supposedly got complete pass-through. I kinda doubt that part. But I also read fairly recently that Chuck Adams had done been asked to try it and wounded one or two and maybe had to finish one with a rifle??? He did eventually kill one but his conclusion was that they shouldn't be attempted with bow and arrow for the reasons you stated. I need to find that article and show it to that kid. Funny though, I would have thought a rhino would be more difficult than an elephant; not that they are pushovers themselves, huh? Oh well, gotta go for now. Thanks again.

Walter Lea Thomas IV

[WLThomas IV]

Oh, I forgot to mention, I believe Chuck Adams used an arrow of some 650 or 700 grains, if I remember correctly. Little light for an elephant, wouldn't you say?

[Rick McGowan]

If Chuck used an arrow that light, he must be losing his mind. I have heard of the guy that got a passthrough on the elephant, but don't know the particulars. The reasons I heard that rhino are easier is that, you can see the ribs on them, so its possible to aim for the soft tissue in between, you can't see the ribs on an elephant. Monty did shoot a rhino, due to circumstances it had to be finished off with a rifle. Also a rhino is not nearly as hard to sneak up close to than is an elephant. Rick

[WLThomas IV]

Rick, I'm going to check and see if I can find that article. It's in one of my recent Bowhunting Magazines I believe. May be Peterson's Bowhunting.

[Twang at Work]

According to his book, the arrow was 830.  Still a little light for elephant, IMO.

[waterone]

BTW, when I was in collecge, I had a professor that had spent some time in Africa, in the Congo in this case, he told me that there were natives in the Congo that took elephants with not bows, but axes!!  :eek:  He told me that there were the only tribes that took elephants, by sneaking up on them and then hamstringing them, then killing by spears the imobilized elephant.  He did say waht the mortality rate was, but I don't think that it is a "traditional" sport that I would want to take up!    

He sis report that in this 20 years in Africa, they were the only group that killed healthy elephants that he knew of.

chuck

[erron]

I just know I'm gunna get flamed for this, but can anyone tell me what the attraction is for killing an elephant?

You don't eat it, you don't skin it, and ivory is a banned export (I think?) so what's the 'big' deal?

I mean, Okay, so it's a BIG animal, with BIG teeth, but is that all there is? Sounds awfully like horn porn to me.

I woudn't be so worried but there's a 'big' cost to us, PR-wise, as hunters, given the whale-like sanctity afforded elephants by the general populace.

I could be totally off track here, and I'm willing to be educated, so burn away!

Erron

[Bowlim]

I've only reading to go by.  There are some authors who felt they were a very interesting animal to hunt, Elmer Keith mentions this, and many of the classical writers.  Interesting not because they were part of the big five, or might stomp you, but a challenging animal to sort out just as whitetails are, though doubtless different in terms of the details.  I think there is  a tendancy to assume that any animal that large is easy to find, but this diesn't appear to be the only view.  However this is one animal where you are likely to be overguided in modern Africa, so how much you actualy get to hunt it any more, I don't know.

On whether they should be shot, they are one species that because of the ivory is under tremendous pressure, and without some counterballancing monetary value from hunting they are likely to be cruely exploited.  Also despite their being under pressure, this does not mean they are rare everywhere, so there is still management to be undertaken.

There are at least two ways of looking at their intrinsic value.  One would say they aren't human so forget any special status.  Another says they are a higher order of inteligence and so forth, and they shouldn't be touched.  Take your pick.

The question of whether they are a proper archery target is a hard one, some say yes, and others say no.  As long as the killing is legitimate, the elephant itself gains some advantage by being only pursued by an archer, since at least the first initiating shot depends on a proper bowkill setup.  So I don't imagine the elephants would complain about it.  There are at least split opinions as to whether it is a stunt shooting them, or something likely to succeed.  I don't know which camp is correct.

I just finished reading Chuck's biography.  i think that 650 is closser to what he shoots regular game with.  I think he used one XX inside another, and it would be hard to come up with 650 on that basis.  Sadly, I have returned the book.

[Rick McGowan]

850 grains is to light for buffalo in my experience, let alone elephant, but a lot of guys can't get by the fast is better.
Erron, you are way off base, ALL of an elephant gets eaten and you can import legal hides and ivory. Despite elephants status there are to many in some areas, it actually isn't that there are to many elephants, but there are to many people for the elepants to roam the huge areas that they traditionally covered. As a result they destroy all the vegetation in an area and it dosn't have time to recover. In other areas without hunting, elephants have no value, in fact they are a liability to the locals as they raid their crops and threaten their lives, so the poachers become the local heros. Where you have legal hunting the locals protect the elephants as "cash cows". I have heard of one area that has satellite dishes and computers in their grass hut schools paid for with money from legal elephant hunting. Nobody can explain the attraction of hunting animals that can kill you, either you have to do it or you want no part of it. Some of the guys that are only ego driven change their minds when you get close enough to hear them breath and can count their eyelashes. Don't forget that there are one hell of a lot of dead guys that were hunting dangerous game with big rifles, you aren't going to stop the charge of ANYTHING with a bow. Rick

[tonto]

i did a rifle hunt this year in Africa. I was going for a cape buffalo. I was offered a chance at an elephant cow. I was unsure because of all you hear.
 Well after I got my buff we started elephant hunting. I found it to be a great hunt! Days of tracking ,its like trying to find a certain whitetail while worrying about being stepped on by one of his friends. When after several days we finally came up on the group we were looking for( I was hunting for a problem animal and in this group of 30 + I was to take either an old cow or male that had killed some folks or one that had a bad leg) we were less than 50 yards from the group before you could see them. I think its because our eyes arent used to looking for something so big. Once I saw one I was amazed as they kept appearing. Now we had to watch the herd and wait until one of the target animals was open for a shot. Now keep in mind if the wind went wrong the entire herd could have run away are run AT you! It was a very tense wait! The trackers were very nervous. Once the group fed in our direction and all of us took off full speed to a spot where we wouldnt be winded. Then we sat there hoping they didnt feed to where we were and smell our sent. A hunt that I wasnt sure i wanted to do turned out to be the hunt I will always think about.
 Rick is correct every bit of meat was taken in about 10 hours nothing was there but a grease spot. I was a local hero for a few days everyone would come out to the road a wave as we passed.
 I couldnt bring any ivory or skin back from mine as it was a PAC elephant (problem animal control)But I hunt more for the memory and I got great ones.
 In some areas the elephants have destroyed the vegatation too many for the land. The people have little and when their crops are in they must post guards to try and keep elephant out with sticks!
 A hunt that I was uneasy about taking because of preconcieved ideas turned out to be a hunt that I wish i could do every year!
 I will say that in my oppinion elephant seem to die easy if hit right. My PH said he would rather guide a bowhunter for elephant that buffalo. Remember even when using a rifle they want you within 25 yards.
Dean

[erron]

Sorry to take so long getting back to this.

Rick and Tonto, thanks for bringing me up to speed on the situation. The problem for hunter then, as ever, seems to be getting that information across to the masses. Not having ever hunted Africa, I had only the mass media to go on, and they increasingly don't give the hunter's point of view.

thanks again,

Erron

[Rick McGowan]

Erron, we will never change the minds of anti-hunters, they don't want to confuse their opinions with the facts anyway. It is the non-hunters that we need to give the facts to. I've had people give me real attitude about hunting until I started giving them the facts and then they say, "how come no one has ever told us this"?
Tough to do with the state of the media. Ric

[Jock]

Walter,
In answer to you're original question, I have 4 bowkills on video;
Howard Hill in "Tembo"
Fred Bear in "Mozambique Game Trails"
Bill Negley in "Moments of Truth"
and Gary Bogner, who uses a wheely bow in "Passport to Africa"

[herb haines]

a couple of bits of info . Kruger Park is the largest wildlife park in RSA (south africa) . with at one end the large tourist hotels for the eco tourists at the other side of the park is a large slaughtering planrt where they process (can ,pack) if i remember right 3000 elephant and other animmals i presume a year .
africa has a shortage of protien so nothing is wasted .when we kill an animal we fiels dress it and drag it out to a vechicle .in africa no field dressing for smaller game (antelope to zebra ) carried to a truck or winched aboard  and dressed in a room back at camp . what isn't taken by owner of property or PH and sold or fed to client is taken by trackers and workers . almost everything is utilized except maybe waterbuck !!

now i am large so i figure i am a 4 bucket man , most people who mess up on hunting elephant fit in 3 buckets , holds the dirt and twigs that are mixed in also .when elephants get through with you not a lot left to collect .cheaper trip home maybe ----- herb-- always looking for a cheap way to hunt LOL

[pav]

I HEAR THEY HAVE GREAT FISH RECIPIES IN S. AFRICA

[PAPALAPIN]

Don't forget  BOB SWINEHEART

[Henry McCann]

There was a young man that shot a cape buffalo with a Black Widow recurve and the story was in Traditional Bowhunter some years ago.

He later went back and got an elephant with a compound. Had a pass through. Didn't hit a single bone/rib and passed through the lung/heart area. That story was in Safari Club magazine.

He always hunts with his dad.

[hunt it]

Henry,

That young man is Steve Kobrine, I have met him at the SCI convention several times. He did shoot a recurve in his early days. He now shoots a 95lb Darton I believe. Many, SCI bow hunters have killed elephant with compounds, Herb mentioned Gary Bogner, you mentioned Steve, Archie Nesbitt got his in 2002 and Dr. Adrian Devilliers has also shot one with bow I believe. There are others, not sure of names.