Buff bow

[Torben Jensen]

I have discovered something that might interest other people going after big tuff animals like Water buffalo and doesn't want to tear up their shoulders on real heavy bows. David Soza (DAS)just sent me a pair of Samick Extreme limbs(synth. core and double carbon made for FITA target shooting !) for my DAS Kinetic riser.He even did a perfect camo job on them. These "target shooters" performs way better than anything I ever saw before - and I have owned/shot a lot of bows.
I'm shooting Beman Max4 Camo with 100 grain brass inserts and grizzly broadheads with steel inserts. That brings the weight to 790 grains (spine 300 and FOC 23% !!).
The bow is giving between 64 and 65 # at my draw 28,75" and here comes the interesting part : I get a consistent 176-178 fps handshooting it with silencers and all. I'm holding at anchor for app. 2 seconds so its not a "snapshot".
This is way more than Ashby recommends as plenty for water buff - and only at 65 # !
Most other good performing bows will need at least 12-15# more to give the same performance.
Torben from Denmark

[Falk]

Torben, this sounds interesting but somehow strange to me. HOW do you get 65# out of a FITA limb?!?   :confused:   Are they cut shorter or modified somehow. Please explain and add a pic if possible. What AMO bowlenght has your assembly?
Cheers, Falk

[longbow357]

wow - thats some impressive performance right there!!!  

[Mark U]

One of the guys I'm going with to Oz for buff in a month is taking his DAS.  He is pulling about 66# at a pretty long draw, about 31 inches I think.  Anyway, the bow shoots a 780 grain arrow 191 fps and a 1028 grain arrow at 180 fps. Don't know which limbs he has on it.

[DAS Kinetic]

Mark,
   Yea, Doug's limbs are Samicks too.  I started using them for these applications because I can get them in heavier weights

Falk, FITA limbs gain effective weight when put on shorter risers.  Generally abot 2 pounds per inch.

[Torben Jensen]

Falk the bow length is 60". The reason the poundage is higher on these risers is because of two things :
1. The riser length is shorter (my limbs would make either a 66 or 68" on a Fita riser).
2. The angle the limbs come off the riser is different - and can be changed quite a bit by the shooter simply by turning a bolt in or out.

If you go to Davids homepage (DAS Kinetic Bows) you can see pictures.

[Arrow4Christ]

NICE!!!

[Arrow4Christ]

BTW, can you shoot those DAS bows off the shelf?

[kawika b]

DAS or anyone else who might be "in the know",,,how short of a riser would one need to get about 55#@25"? if it's 2# per inch below the stated riser length,then i may be looking for a very short riser,,,very short,lol.

[DAS Kinetic]

GWB, yep they have a nice contoured shelf with a contoured removable sideplate.

Kawika, for very short draws you really need more limb preload, or just heavier limbs to start with.  55# is not a problem though.

I was just looking at Pat Lefemine's posted test results with his 2006 Bowtech compound.  He didn't say what his draw length is, but at 80# and 980gr arrow he is getting only 186fps.  That's one of the fastest compounds on the market.  I wonder what it would do at 65# with a finger release??  There is a lot of misconception about the gap between modern stick bows and compounds!

[kawika b]

i saw your reply on AT about a better performing recurve. the numbers you posted were an eye opener for sure!

[Arrow4Christ]

Am I correct in saying that Ashby reccomends at least 840 grains going 140 fps for water buffalo? If so my new recurve at 60 pounds will do that with about 20fps to spare.

[O.L. Adcock]

DAS, You got that right about the gap between good trad bows and compounds. I've got a Hoyt ProVantage Legacy that I used to think was wonderful but at the same gr/lb/draw length, my longbows out perform the snot out of it. Just don't have the "let off"!  

GWB, yes sir, those are the minimum numbers that will consistantly get to the far ribs. That's not to say pass throughs everytime but once a BH gets to the far ribs it's done all the killing it's going to do. At my 30" draw I can meet those numbers with 47#! As long as those numbers are met or exceeded, the buff isn't going to care if it was a 60# bow or a 90#. More then those numbers is always better.....O.L.

[Arrow4Christ]

thanks O.L.. "the buff isn't going to care if it was a 60# bow or a 90#. More then those numbers is always better.....O.L." very true

[Falk]

posted by Torben Jensen:
The reason the poundage is higher on these risers is because of two things :
1. The riser length is shorter (my limbs would make either a 66 or 68" on a Fita riser).
2. The angle the limbs come off the riser is different - and can be changed quite a bit by the shooter simply by turning a bolt in or out.

Thanks Torben - I certainly did know those facts but wasn't able to think of such BIG effect    :eek:    All I "know" about FITA will end at about 45# for men, hence a HUGE differents - at least in my mind   :cool:  

I stick to my Cust. Kodiak T/D - but would love to get hold of an old A-riser for the same purpose. Though the differents is only about 3# when compared to the B-riser I own. But it would allow me to use my longer #3 limbs for actual hunting. They perform definately better then the shorter #2 of the same weight (70#). But those DAS bows are - of course - one generation ahead compared to my setup ... and it's hard to believe the given datas if you for yourself struggle with this far less efficient bows - because you want to   :D

Cheers, Falk

[DAS Kinetic]

Falk,
   You can commonly get FITA limbs 50lbs, or heavier on special order.  Sid Ball at Border makes heavy limbs that perform very well.  You have to make sure your riser is up to adding heavy limbs though.  You might end up with a real vibra-master      

[GroundHunter]

Longbow for Buff?
What are guys using? Not for "mimimum", but "comfortable margin" - say 800 gr. and 170 fps? or more?

[GroundHunter]

O.K., for a DAS Kinetic buff bow you would be able to set it up at 65#, but you would have to get Samick Limbs? Does DAS kinetic provide such a set-up, or do you have to get a DAS riser and souce your Samick limbs?

[DAS Kinetic]

Groundhunter,
  The bows come complete, ready yo hunt.  Samick is custom building the limbs for me.

[Bowhunter4life]

I've been saying for a while (and scoffed and laughed at!!!) that the top tradbows today are going to be pretty close to performance with the top compounds today given enough weight is put into the arrow, and the same weight was used for each.  I know for a fact they will beat quite a few.  I think it comes down to how much energy is put into the bow with each design, thus efficiency of each given bow design.