DAS Bows-How is it possible

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Torben, I'll be away for a little more than a month but will try my best to remember to send you one of the field record data sheets as soon as I'm back. If I forget, PLEASE drop me a personal message about the end of March if you haven't received it by then! I would greatly appreciate the data.

You have it correct. Use right wing fletching with the Grizzly. Get the BH as sharp and smoothly honed as you possibly can, and be sure to alter its Tanto tip to a cut-on-impact edge.

Just like Vasaline, the KY jelly won't get hard. It remains somewhat sticky. That's one of the things I don't like about using either. The arrows can easily collect surface grit.

There is a spray lubricant called INOX (available at most big hardware stores in Aussie) that works as well as anything I've yet tried, and it's a great rust inhibitor too. It's made in Canada, if I remember correctly. In blood-droplet testing INOX also appears to have no coagulent properties and appears, if anything, to have a slight anticoagulent quality (I used my own blood for those test, as it had to be very freah blood to be valid).

I've also tried adding a slick coat of finish over the carbon arrows, both with and without a hard coating of paste wax over that. In theory all these lubricants SHOULD help reduce shaft drag slightly, but I've found no lube yet that has shown a consistently measurable increase (or decrease) in average outcome penetration. At least the INOX does a great job of rust prevention on the BH's.

Some spray-on silicone lubes leave a dry finish, and I'm now testing with those too, as well as Teflon bearing lubricants. I think a perminent teflon shaft-coating would be best (because it certainly DOES helps on broadheads), but don't know how to get a perminent one onto the shaft!

Ed

[Kingstaken]

The question I have when does a Traditional bow not become a traidtional bow anymore?
Will there now be another catagory next to Traditional and Compound?  Maybe Modified or Modern Traditional?  Imgaine that Modern Traditional.
Here we go again, hiding the the need for speed behind a new modern product/invention.
I don't know why this bow gets any time here? Jim

[Torben Jensen]

Kingstaken you are kidding - right ??
Nobody is hiding anything - no need to - I'm simply for performance (not speed - just say if I need to explain the difference) when shooting big dangerous game like buff.
No need to be so threathened by this "evil" it's just a recurve with a metal handle - no wheels or anything !!
Your last sentence is hard to comment on - believe me I have really tried to think long and hard what to say to you - but you really got me - I can't say a thing !! Imagine that- out of words.
Torben

[Kingstaken]

What about a Screaming Eagle. Got recurve limbs and ya can shoot instinctvely...

[Torben Jensen]

Did you ever notice the two funny looking small cams and not to forget the cables on the Screaming Eagle - do you think they are put there as an ornament or for a practical purpose like giving the shooter let of ? If this question is to hard try to look in the dictionary under : compound bows.
I wonder why its so hard to understand that the DAS is "just" a recurve bow. I even shoot mine of the shelf like I did with my Widows and Adcock bows. Its got a riser, two limbs and one string - doesn't that sound vaguely like a bow ?
If its the performance you are feeling bad about what about a lot of other high performing bows like Border, Bill Stewart, Black Swan, Adcock, Morrison and so forth ... are we not supposed to talk about them either ? Are they "untrad" or what ?

[Terry Green]

Kingstaken,

Trad Gang's line is drawn at wheels or cables.

If any other modifications of such type come out in the future, we'll add that to the 'non-trad bow' category.

[Jay Campbell, JD]

Dr. Ashby/Fellows:

My wife Karen and I are going to OZ with Don and Lori Thomas to Bill Baker's place for Buff.  Karen is pulling a 67# @ 28" OL Adcock to 29" (70#).  I am shooting a new 80# BW PLX @ 28".  Yes, her draw is longer than mine.  The bows (10# actual difference in draw eight) are shooting the same arrow perfectly, and with the same energy measured through the chrono.  Amazing.

Dr. Ashby, here's my question: Although I'll get the arrow weight/spine up one way or another, right now we have two set-ups that work, both with carbon Gold Tip 100s (5/16" shaft). 1) 680 gr with 21% FOC (no shaft insert), and 2) 800 gr with 13% FOC (low tip weight, full length shaft insert).  Of those two (I intend to have our final set up at about 1000 grains and 20% FOC), but of those two, which one would be preferred?  THANKS! - Jay Campbell, JD

[Jay Campbell, JD]

Here's a quick update on what may be our final buffalo arrow. A Gold Tip Big Game 100 with a 1516 Easton "jazz" aluminum full length shaft inside, which fits tight. 70 grains of weight, aluminum insert, 125 gr steel broadhead adaptor, 160 grain head, (STOS Broadhead). Finished arrow weight - 892 grains.  FOC - 16.5%. Arrow speed - 158 FPS out of both Karen's Adcock (70# at her 29" draw), and my 80# Black Widow PLX.  Arrow flight is just a dart with Broadheads, Bare shafts, and Fletched shafts hitting together.

Hope that will do, we're going pig hunting with 'em tomorrow. - Jay and Karen Campbell

[wasapt]

The DAS DALAA bows will not out perform my Black Widow PSA and PMA or my carbon limb Palmer bows. Comparing same bow length and draw weight shooting the same arrow. I have limbs that are 45lb 50lb 55lb and 60lb.

[wasapt]

I have a dalaa and a palmer and a number of black widows. Dalaa comes in 3ed place when comparing all three makes of bows when set to 50, 55, and 60lb bow weight all shooting the same arrow. I was very diasappointed as I thought the new Dalaa was going to be my go to bow. Never the less, I chose to leave it at home this trip. Just harvested my Musk ox and am on to the polar bear in the morning - dangerous game? I chose the Black widow.

[buejeger]

Ok, I have a DAS and I have some Border Hex 5 mkI hunter limbs with the hyperflex core on it. They give me 63# at my 29 inch draw.
I have been doing some serious chrono work in preperation for some pig hunting next year and my next trip to africa the year after that.... and here are the numbers:

Arrow 1  580 grains, 193 fps, 47.98 ft/lbs ke and 0.5 slug lb/s momentum

Arrow 2  735 grains, 176 fps, 50.57 KE and 0.57 momentum

Arrow 3  845 grains, 167 fps, 52.34 ke and 0.63 momentum

Arrow 4  937 grains, 158 fps, 51.95 ke and 0.66 momentum.

Now take a look at those figures and compare with the 892 grain arrow That Jay is launching from an 80# black widow....

The thing with the DAS is that it is a solid , well designed riser, the magic really occurs when you match it up to some serious quality limbs...  now my limbs are the mkI, the mkII limbs are even faster    

I am by no way or means slagging off Black Widow either, I own one with two sets of limbs. great shooting bows  

But comparible performance from a bow with 17 # less draw weight?  yes please  

[SERGIO VENNERI]

The DAS that i shot against my ff Silvertip , must have had a Cold that day ,because it came no where close in performance and accuracy. I find that when they hype bows up too much , i'm really disappointed when i try that particular Bow. by the way, to whoever said that foam limbs are lighter than Bamboo or maple, again those findings are different from mine AGAIN.
         I had an interesting conversation with Earl many years ago and in his exact words " Sergio the benefits of foam cores and carbon are Consistency ! In a 41" FITA Bow at 80 metres , any change in humidity may change the draw weight 1-2# , so at that draw weight and at 80 metres there is a significant difference. However in a 60-65# hunting Bow , DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY !!! "  
           Not looking to get Flamed here, this a quote from Earl himself.  

[buejeger]

No flames here Sergio    

[Arrow4Christ]

It's funny how different preferences can be     I had a Silvertip and truly WANTED to like it more than my DAS bow..I tried! I loved the idea of shooting a bow of Paul Schafer's design, and I would guess I'll have another one someday, but I tried quite a few of the top name recurves, including a Border Black Douglas, and none of them shot as well for me as the DAS. I think the good thing about it is its versatility...don't like the grip? Change it...don't like the way the limbs feel? Try a different set...plunger and rest? No problem. Off the shelf? Try the most adjustable off-the-shelf bow ever created! There's something really romantic about Schafer bows, and mine shot VERY well...its just the DAS is everything I want it to be, when I want it to be   ...except a longbow....my findings may vary now that I've shot more, and I'm getting more into longbows presently, but my 21" Naki will always be in my arsenal.

Craig

[Benny Nganabbarru]

Buejager,

I'm just wondering about comparing a DAS recurve to a Black Widow longbow. Correct me, please, if I'm mistaken, but I understand Jay shot an 80# Black Widow longbow. I love Black Widow longbows, but I understand (again, please correct me if I'm wrong) that as good as they are, they are out-performed by same-weight Black Widow recurves. If that's the case, I'd be interested to see the results tested against a Black Widow recurve. I do like you signature line, too!

[buejeger]

Originally posted by Ben Kleinig:
Buejager,

I'm just wondering about comparing a DAS recurve to a Black Widow longbow. Correct me, please, if I'm mistaken, but I understand Jay shot an 80# Black Widow longbow. I love Black Widow longbows, but I understand (again, please correct me if I'm wrong) that as good as they are, they are out-performed by same-weight Black Widow recurves. If that's the case, I'd be interested to see the results tested against a Black Widow recurve. I do like you signature line, too!

Hi Ben,
I unfortunately dont have a black widow in that poundage, my widow is 52@29....  However I do believe, wait I'll check....  yes here it is and I quote
"Yes, the new CNC “precision crafted” Black Widow longbow is as fast and sweet to shoot as a Black Widow recurve"
straight from BW web page....
So Black widow them selves say that the longbow is as fast shooting as the recurve.

Now I dont want to turn this thread into a bashing Black Widow thread, like I said I have two (well one riser and two sets of limbs) and I really enjoy shooting them.. in fact my target limbs on the widow helped me take the new Norwegian Indoor FITA (trad) record last month... so I DO like the widows..    
(Glad you like my sig     )

[L82HUNT]

R. Blacky Schwarz  has done these tests.  Both shot a 9 grain per pound arrow 194. Notice the brace height for both bows.

     BLACK WIDOW   PA "X"
  Brace Height for Testing: 8 3/8 inches
  Draw Weight: 50 lbs @ 28 inches (AMO)  
  Arrow weight: 452 grains
  Arrow Speed with mechanical release: 194 fps    
 Arrow Speed with finger release: 189 fps  


   
   DAS DALLA   W/ 21" RISER
  Brace Height for Testing: 7 3/8 inches
  Draw Weight: 53 lbs @ 28 inches (AMO)  
  Arrow weight: 476 grains
  Arrow Speed with mechanical release: 194 fps    
  Arrow Speed with finger release: 189 fps

[Arrow4Christ]

L82HUNT,
Those are with the stock Dalaa limbs, not Winex or in Nathan's case, the Border Hex5s. You will gain a good 5-8 fps trading up in limbs, but admittedly not 17 pounds worth. Another thing to think about is the fact that bow design loses efficiency after 65 pounds or so, meaning that pounds over 65 means less that pounds over 55.
Craig

[buejeger]

Also 21" riser.. I use the 17" riser...
Also the 194 speed is with a release,, its 189 with fingers.
My 580 arrow is 9.2 grains per pound, with fingers I am getting 193...

As for the "17#" well are the BW recurves 17 pounds more effective at the same draw weight as the BW longbow?  BW say it shoots as fast....
Ok, lett the hunt begin for a 63# @ 29" 62" amo BW recurve shooter begin

Or has Blacky done a BW Recurve VS BW longbow test?

Nathan  

[L82HUNT]

Originally posted by buejeger:


Or has Blacky done a BW Recurve VS BW longbow test
 

He has,   Black Widow PL X  "Birdseye Maple" T/D

Brace Height for Testing: 7 3/8 inches
  Draw Weight: 50.5 lbs @ 28 inches (AMO)  
  Arrow weight: 457 grains
  Arrow Speed with mechanical release: 190 fps    
  Arrow Speed with finger release: 185 fps  

Understand that the limbs may be different then the ones you may be using.  But it seems if you really look into it, that the differance is small all the way around.  Lets say that with the hex limbs you do get 5fps more, thats 2.5% more speed.  You can get that by changing out the stock string.  
  Let say the test string is a 16 strand flemish made of D97.(This is the strings supplied by Widow)  You change to a 8 strand UltraCam Endless, I gain 4-5 fps.  Either way you are getting a super performing bow.