Just Wondering re:Dangerous Game

[BigAl]

I read Glen St. Charles' book recently and can't help but agree with him re:hunting dangerous game with a bow. Essentially, he says that if you have to have a gun backup to hunt any game, what you're really saying is that you shouldn't be hunting it with a bow in the first place. That's sort of like saying that I'll slap anybody in the face as long as I have Arnie Swartznegger, et al, standing behind me. Comments?

[Rick McGowan]

Yeah, I've heard it before and I have a lot of respect for Glenn, but its only his opinion and me and a whole lot of other people don't agree with it. Even if it was true that it is perfectly safe(it isn't) SO WHAT? Jillions of nondangerous animals are shot, so that point makes absolutely no sense to me at all. Should we not hunt deer, because it isn't dangerous? I've crawled up on lots of dangerous animals with a very big rifle in my hands and I knew that I wasn't safe, maybe the bow hunter with me felt he was safe because I had a rifle, but that was only because he didn't know any better. Maybe Glenn made that statement as to explain why he never hunted dangerous game. GUN HUNTERS have the rifle back up as well and aside from the fact that it is a rare year that several professional hunters don't get whacked by dangerous or even nondangerous game, its not just there for protection, its also there to make sure a wounded animal dosn't escape to suffer a long lingering death.

[sar]

And if you need to wear a seatbelt, you should be driving a car.


we should never have a contigency plan.

[Ray Hammond]

I'm with Rick, Glenn's points of view make sense to me nearly all the time, but that one?????

I've never seen a PH next to a big five rifle client WITHOUT his own firearm...he is backing up the rifle hunter with a GUN!!!!! And I see them use them routinely even if the client makes a good hit.

Why shouldn't a bowhunter be afforded a last ditch backup?

[justin snyder]

I guess Glen shouldn't be hunting Africa at all with a bow.  Is it safe to go into the bush hunting antelope without a gun. You might run right into a lion and become dinner.  What about cleaning game? Better just stay on the bus with the rest of the tourists.  Justin

[Jay Campbell, JD]

I hunt in black bear, hog, and snake country without a gun all the time, but never in Grizzly country (.475 Linebaugh).  On the rare occasion I'm helping track a wounded hog, I carry the big pistol or a .45 if possible, even if I'm also carrying my bow.

I've never pulled the trigger, so I suppose that means I could always have gone afield with just the bow, but I feel better and safer for my bowhunting wife and me, and that's where I draw the line.  Bowhunters have their individual comfort zones, and should stay within them.  Mine begins around wounded animals in the lower 48, and healthy ones in Alaska.  We're going after Buff in Australia this summer, and I expect someone will have a rifle somewhere. I'll hunt without it there, but I surely woudn't track wounded Buff without it. - Jay Campbell, JD

[John57]

Many respects to Glen,but sorry I don't fully agree.
I've shot three large feral bulls with a bow and things went well on all of them.
But each time I've had a mate with a rifle with me.I'm not sure having the rifle there made much difference in how safe either of us were though.
I've worked with cattle half my life and know even an old dairy cow can go absolutely mad just on the smell of another animals blood.
If their hurt and wound up,a gun may not stop them anyway,more so in heat of the momment,close contact,think bush,ect ect.
I think a gun is a good idea,but I,m damn sure going to know where the best tree is before I rely on any gun anyway.
Matter of fact the gun carrier can find his own tree,all the ones round here are mine.

[Bjorn]

All wild animals can present a danger-people get badly mauled and even killed by deer every year. And stuff can fall off the shelf in an earthquake or tornado too-you going to walk around the house in steel toed boots and sleep wearing a helmet?

[Ghengis]

Each to their own I guess... I have always hunted without the gun backup and will continue to do so, but like most I have a comfort zone, mine includes an escape route  

[Basalt]

G'day guys, yeh Jay there will be someone beside you with rifle back-up on your Buffalo hunt here in Australia. It will most likely be me or my head guide Brad Kane with one of our .375's. Although I've hunted and killed Buffalo with my recurve without back-up I have a policy in my Buffalo camp that ALL clients are backed-up on Buff, it's just good sence. Also, like Rick has said on rare occasions we have had to finish wounded Buff, where we would not have had an opportunity to finish them with the bow.
Brad and I backed Doug Chase up on his Buffalo hunt last year and he put two bulls down in very short order with no fuss.
The next week we all hunted hogs and scrub bulls up on Cape York Penninsula.
It wasn't a guided hunt and I was only carrying my recurve and hunting with my U.S. mates. Doug decided he wanted to have a crack at a Scruber.
Doug is a very experienced and dedicated bowhunter and I have the upmost respect for him. Doug had a hard time with his Scrub Bull but finally tipped it over after some very hairy moments. I can tell you there were a number of times that Doug looked at me and said "I wish you had your .375 H&H here right now". I can honestly say there were a couple of times I wished for it too. We did that follow-up with extreme caution and always tried to have two climbable trees nearby.
When things get dangerous they have a habit of happening very quickly and they become dangerous not just for the hunter but for everyone concerned.
I'll be bowhunting Brown Bear on the penninsula in October and I'll be more than comfortable with my guide carrying a back-up rifle, I only hope he never has to use it.

[ishiwannabe]

If not for protection from an enraged wounded animal, a gun would ensure the animal's suffering isn't prolonged if a secondary bow shot does not present. Why take chances with either?

[CRO]

I agree with ishiwannabe

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

I've gun hunted, bowhunted and guided for big and dangerous game. Having had a number of close calls, both with wounded and unwounded game, as well as game not on license, for potentially lethal game I'll vote for having adequate firearms backup present whenever the law and circumstances allow. With big animals it's sometimes necessary in order to prevent loss and needless suffering of wounded game ... and sometimes it saves your bacon! I desire to be around to hunt another day, regardless of what MIGHT happen! No arrow is my idea of a 'stopper' ... my .500 Nitro Express double IS.

No disrespect for the opinion of others, but there's a difference between having confidence and taking a needless risk. I'm a good and confident swimmer too, but I still don't swim outside the shark net!

Ed

[Tuffcity]

There are 3 reasons why I usually pack a firearm when I'm hunting in grizzly country (which is every year).

One is 13, one is 12 and one is 10.  I doubt Mr. St. Charles is going to attend my kids' school events, drive them to hockey at 0500 or pay my mortgage if I get beat up by a large animal.

So, respectfully, his opinion on that matter means squat to me.  

RC
(from BC- the province with the biggest population of griz in the world)

[DTS]

Families to raise, feed and shelter.  Hopefully grandkids to spoil and pass on traditions.  Friends to enjoy.  Life insurance can't replace daddy.  Calculated risks for me.  Lots of respect for those who don't use back up lead.

[Sant-Ravenhill]

I think people are missing the point that Glen was making. I'm all for not being foolhardy. Stupid risks just lead to pain, suffering and even death.

But should we be hunting animals that we are afraid to hunt without large caliber backup? Are we not then inferring that our stick and string is not really adequate for the situation and animal being hunted?

Playing devils advocate, so don't shoot the messenger.

[Rick McGowan]

S-R, it still makes absolutely no sense imo. A rifle hunter hunting the same dangerous game would have the exact same backup rifle behind him, does that mean these animals shouldn't be hunted with a rifle either? If so, then the backup rifle isn't adequate either, so what difference does it make if its behind a bowhunter? Like I said before I think Glenn was just trying to come up with an excuse for the fact that he never hunted the dangerous stuff.

[J-dog]

I like the Russian way of looking at things:

"Life is the most extreme sport there is, nobody has lived through it yet."

I am not sure what Glenn meant, but I don't think it is an excuse at all. If yer scared say yer scared maybe? if yer afraid of sharks stay out the water? carrying a gun is being pansy? maybe he just didn't care to have to have a gun with him at all, he was that dedicated to the bow?

Seriously guys and all above statements is kidding except for the last statement. Maybe he was that dedicated to the bow and realized the stupidity of hunting dangerous game without a backup gun?

Who knows? Great man though period.

Thoughts?
Jason

[Aaron Proffitt 2]

Sitting here at work in relative safety,I think Glen's logic is sound.

[Sant-Ravenhill]

Rick,

I don't know what Glenn truly meant either, just engendering discussion as I've never heard that from a bowhunter, especially one in Glenn's position.

I've read lots of garbage from African DG hunters on Africa forums who slam us by calling hunting with a bow for DG nothing but a stunt. I disagree whole heartedly as they, as you've stated, always have backup, when they hunt DG.

Not long ago I reread two of my favorite bowhunting stories. Monty Browning's articles in TBM from 1996 and 2002 where he took the world record brown bear and a great Australian buff. Australia would be a dream come true hunt for several species, including buff.

If memory serves, you have successfully hunted buffalo in the land down under.