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Author Topic: here we go again, african bow ban  (Read 3383 times)

Offline sticks

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here we go again, african bow ban
« on: February 20, 2007, 03:35:00 PM »
CAPE TOWN, South Africa - South Africa's environment minister announced long-awaited restrictions on hunting Tuesday, declaring he was sickened by wealthy tourists shooting tame lions from the back of a truck and felling rhinos with a bow and arrow.

Dismissing threats of legal action by the hunting industry, Marthinus Van Schalkwyk said the new law would ban "canned" hunting of big predators and rhinos in small enclosures that offer them no means of escape.

In addition, lions bred in captivity would have to be released into the open for at least two years before they could be hunted. Van Schalkwyk said a previously proposed six-month delay would not give lions enough time to develop self-defense instincts.

"Hunting should be about fair chase ... testing the wits of a hunter against that of the animal," he told a press conference. "Over the years that got eroded and now we are trying to re-establish that principal."

South Africa is famous as home to the Big Five animals _ lion, leopard, rhinoceros, elephant and buffalo. Its flagship Kruger National Park attracts hundreds of thousands of camera toting visitors every year. Some 9,000 privately owned game farms and other government-run reserves also offer visitors a taste of the wild.

But it has become also become a choice destination for wealthy gun-toting tourists willing to pay more than $20,000 to take home a "trophy" lion or rhino's head.

The new law, which enters into force June 1, bans the hunting of animals that have been tranquilized. It outlaws bows and arrows for big predators and thick skinned animals like rhinos - one of the practices singled out by Van Schalkwyk as particularly appalling. And it bans the use of vehicles to chase the animal until it is too tired and terrified to flee for its life.

"To see people who are half drunk on the back of a bakkie (truck) hunting lions which are in fact tame animals is quite abhorrent," Van Schalkwyk _ himself an avid hunter _ told The Associated Press.

But conservationists said the law would be difficult to enforce and did not go far enough because it stopped short of an outright ban on intensive breeding of lions, leopards and other predators.

"The big thing for South Africa would be to stand up and say 'we are conservation leaders and this industry is immoral and unethical and we are not going to allow it,'" said Louise Joubert of the San Wildlife Trust, which campaigned for tougher regulations.

She said it made little difference whether a lion was freed for six months or two years before being hunted because once it had got used to being reared and fed by people, it was hard to break that trust.

Joubert said there should be an outright ban on intensive breeding projects, which often remove cubs from the mother at birth so the lioness mates more quickly, and often destroy female cubs as male lions fetch a higher trophy price.

The South African Predator Breeders' Association, which was set up last year to lobby against the regulations, has warned that breeders may be forced to euthanize the estimated 3-5,000 lions they have reared if they are unable to offer them to foreign hunters and can no longer afford to feed them.

"We have asked for an outright ban," said Joubert. "If it means that four to five thousand lions have to be euthanized, it would be a tragic day but it is the only way for this country to get a grip, so be it."

Earlier this year, the breeders' association threatened legal action against the government to claim for compensation. Association officials did not return phone calls asking for comment Tuesday.

However, the Professional Hunters' Association of South Africa, whose members accompany foreign clients, said it welcomed the new regulations as a chance to clean up the image of the South African hunting industry by clamping down on lion breeders who account for only about 3 percent of game farms.

"A small sector has given the whole industry a bad name," said Stewart Dorrington, president of the hunting body.

Up to 7,000 foreign tourists visit South Africa each year on hunting safaris, each spending roughly $18,000, Dorrington said. About 55 percent of hunters are from North America and the rest from Europe and other countries.

Van Schalkwyk said the regulations marked the start of a "clean up of the hunting industry" and would in due course be extended to other animals like antelope species.

Hunting is an integral part of South African life because of its cultural traditions and importance to the economy.

"We gave our firm intention more than two years ago to deal with the issue," he said. "Many of the lion breeders thought they were empty threats and did not take it seriously. This is a practice that cannot be defended in any way."

Offline NDTerminator

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2007, 08:54:00 AM »
Shows how ignorant he is as to how effective a well placed arrow is. A classic case of cutting one's nose off to spite one's face...
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Offline ncsturkey

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2007, 09:48:00 AM »
I may be just have my head in the sand but based on the animals banned I can't believe that there will be a negative impact on the travel to RSA for archery hunting.  cats, elephants, rhinos, wild dog, crocks and brown/spotted hyenas..... How many go to Africa to hunt them??  I've been, I'm going back in September and none of those animals made my wish list.
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Offline sticks

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2007, 04:47:00 PM »
how many go for cape buff? no more cape buff bow hunting in sa...

Offline Steve H.

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2007, 01:26:00 AM »
Cape buffalo is not on the list.

Offline ncsturkey

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2007, 09:28:00 AM »
I scanned the news release and I can't find any refrence to a change for the Cape Buffalo. Not doubting you but what page in the regulations are you refering  Stick???
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Offline sticks

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2007, 03:26:00 AM »
the info i got on cape buff is from a couple guys i know who live in rsa, its considered a thick skinned animal along with hippo, Giraffe, elephant, and rino. hippo and cape buff may or maynot be added into the regulations... sorry my above post should have read: how many go for cape buff? maybe no more cape buff bow hunting in sa...

Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2007, 10:29:00 AM »
Sticks,
I see nothing but good in these regulations.
“Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent-that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Gitnadoix

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2007, 11:04:00 AM »
Well its another case of the few bad apples spoiling the barrel. Those that created this bad taste, the ones hunting semi tame animals from trucks etc are the real culprit here.  Had all hunting been fair chase only we would probably never have seen this issue get to this stage. Cause frankly I would have to agree that chasing a critter around a cage, especialy a critter that thought you were bringing todays impalla haunch for supper is rather well appalling.

   People who promote such antics on this continent shold take note.  Make the public anoyed enough and their greater votting power will sink ya quicker than a sponge ship.  Just my opinion of course.

Offline sticks

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2007, 11:32:00 AM »
well never said they were good or bad. i agree shooting a "tame" lion is in bad taste. but restricting bow hunting on large game seems a bit over the top. most of the local guys in rsa who bow hunt feel the same way. they feel the legislation is anti bow, and i have to say its beginning to look that way.

looking at the issue sitting in the states is one thing but look at it this way what if they said you can't hunt elk or griz with a bow in the states because there to big? that would be a big deal here. just like not being able to hunt leopard or lion with a bow in rsa for the locals there.

you also have to keep in mind high fence hunting here on 1000 acres isn't like high fence there on 120,000 acres. theres allot of respected hunting camps out in rsa who put on quality fair chase hunts. these guys have to suffer now too because of the bad apples talked about in the above post.

Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2007, 01:56:00 PM »
Sticks,

I don't read anything in your original post that says you cannot hunt big animals with a bow because they are "too big".

It says hunting animals inside an enclosure is bad..and it cannot continue because it is being abused by some individuals.

The professional hunters are FOR the legislation- in my mind that makes it good law.
“Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent-that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline JC

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2007, 02:29:00 PM »
Ray, it says "It outlaws bows and arrows for big predators and thick skinned animals like rhinos "...it that's true, I'd have a problem with that. Not so much with the Rhinos, I can understand their exclusion but only because there are not really huntable populations. However, anything else can be and should be legal, to take with the appropriate bow.

By most accounts, the big cats aren't particularly difficult to kill, not sure why they would include them.
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Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2007, 02:34:00 PM »
ooops...didnt see that...was focusing on

Dismissing threats of legal action by the hunting industry, Marthinus Van Schalkwyk said the new law would ban "canned" hunting of big predators and rhinos in small enclosures that offer them no means of escape.

If it outlaws bowhunting for anything PERIOD, when its fair chase, of course thats a different thing altogether.

Like I said, I read his initial sentence and thought it was aimed at enclosure hunting of big five.
“Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent-that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline sticks

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2007, 04:19:00 PM »
heheh ray, ya gots to read the whole shabang...

Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2007, 07:17:00 PM »
can you say Attention Deficit Disorder?????  :readit:    :bigsmyl:  

So if the initial ban takes effect in June...and he is saying he is going to extend it to antelope species later, it could well mean the end of bowhunting in SA...I'm glad I am booked for July with Dries!

But what does that mean for the other guys booking in 08,09 and beyond????????? What the heck are they worrying about bows and antelope for?
“Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent-that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline vermonster13

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2007, 09:54:00 PM »
From what I understand, bowhunting has never been truly legal there anyways. It has been allowed by special dispensation and this legislation looks to do away with that. Perhaps some bowhunters would be well served with getting a legalized bowhunting legislation on the books.
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Offline One eye

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2007, 08:03:00 PM »
Simple solution.  Take your money elsewhere.

Dan
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Offline Ray Hammond

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2007, 07:07:00 AM »
after doing some serious web looking on this, David, I don't see how they could get that accomplished, with the current political climate.

Can you say Namibia?
“Courageous, untroubled, mocking and violent-that is what Wisdom wants us to be. Wisdom is a woman, and loves only a warrior.” - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Dartwick

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2008, 10:01:00 PM »
It really doesnt bother me that you cant shoot Rinos with a bow. Im sure it can be done just fine, but he is probably right that often it isnt.

As for shooting predators. It does seem silly to make the rule. But maybe a lot of them get away. Despite all our talk about responsible hunting in the US - I have found plenty of deer that died and were never found by the archer.
Im not a big fan of killing big cats but it would seem pretty bad if many were dying and not even being found.
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Offline cam188

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Re: here we go again, african bow ban
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2008, 11:50:00 PM »
I always love how it is horrible to hunt the animals but it is OK to.............

"if four to five thousand lions have to be euthanized, it would be a tragic day but it is the only way for this country to get a grip, so be it."

Just so the country can get a grip.....please.
I have always wanted to open a big cat ranch for the purpose of skins and meat and what not. The animals would be treated with the utmost respect and best care that their is. But it would never fly in this world. People would rather see these animals go extinct than be used for profit of any kind. It is complete ignorance. The only way that humans us silly big brained monkeys will keep things going is if they have value.

There is nothing wrong with raising any animal for profit as long as it is given respect and propler care. Zoo's do a horrible job at animal management. They are not allowed to reproduce animals because in most cases animals cannot be released back into the wild. Also most animals in zoo's arn't pure so they could never be reintroduced.

It is a sad day when it is OK to kill X number of animals in one shot just to get their heads on straight.

I do not belived in canned hunts for myself but if that is what some small endowed man wants to do with his money who am I to stop him. I imagine it isn't that much harder to hunt a wild lion with a rifle if you get a good guide. Oh and I don't think it is ethical to kill an elephant with a bow either but. Natives have killed them with spears so somtimes in life we will just do unethical things for our enjoyment or nessecity.

OK Rant over.

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