Asian Buffalo arrow, help!

[aussiehunter]

I decided to put my wheels away and take up traditional. I have read a few threads on this forum and others about arrows for big games.
I bought myself a PMAX 60" 55#@28 Recurve. It shoots beautifully. I will be getting a set of 75# limbs for the Widow. I have a 28" draw length with Trad gear. I am looking for a good shaft for an Asian Buff. Shafts that I have seen on this forum and others are Grizzly Stik Alaskan, Arrow Dynamics, G/Tip Big game 100+ and FMJ Dangerous game shafts. I will be using 190 El grande Grizzly BH with 125 grains steel adapter, brass weight behind insert and may be weight tubes. I am looking for an 860-960 grain shaft with a 20%-25% FOC.

My questions are: What shaft would you choose for big game and why? Also, Would this set up of mine be reasonable to bring an Asian Buffalo down at 20-25 yards?

Any advice would be appreciated as hunting dangerous games are to be taken very seriously.

John

[fentiger]

Sorry to barge in mate but have a question also regarding Oz buff arrow. Will 750gns at 190fps be OK? According to Dr. Ashby it is, other comments please. Hope to be there sometime in 2011. Really enjoyed my brief first non trad recurve Upindi hunt with Paul Rae in 2009.

[aussiehunter]

No problems Dave, you are not barging in. It's all about helping each other. I too, have read some reports from Dr. Ed Ashby. It seems a well constructed arrow (Solid razor sharp broadhead) with EFOC is the way to go at a reasonable distance.
I took a mature Buff two years ago with wheels (compound). My arrow setup was: Rhino 55/80 shafts, 5grs/inch weight tubes inside, No Mercy single bevel BH with 125grs steel adapters and Goldtip brass weight screwed on the back of the insert. Total weight was 825grs with 19% FOC (If I remembered correctly).
I haven't got much  experience in Trad gear as I started shooting Trad in Oct last year when I bought my Black Widow from a member on this forum.  
Hopefully our questions will be answered.

[divecon10]

John! send me u'r postal address. ([email protected])I have something u may like to try
cheers

[Rik]

Two Aussie bulls on Mellville Island gave up their lives to my arrows, shot out of a 75-pound Howard Hill Wesley Special.

I shot one, a herd bull in full rut, at 18 yards through the heart with an 860-grain Ipe arrow tipped with a 160-grain Grizzly. The broadhead penetrated a massive rib, center punched the heart, and was lodged deep in the far shoulder blade.

I shot the other one week earlier while he was laying on his side in a wallow. The arrow (see above) penetrated the thickest part of his sternum right between the front legs, drove up through the heart, through the lungs, and lodged in his spine.

My hunting buddy Doug also took two very large, mature bulls on that trip. He was using a perfectly tuned DAS recurve with carbon arrows just under 1,000 grains.

If I get to hunt them again, I would try to increase my arrow weight to 900 grains. Hard to do with a wood shaft, but possible.

Read Dr. Ashby's reports. Hardwood shafts have far less breakage upon impact with heavy bone that either aluminum or carbon.

I am heading back to Australia this summer for one month, just don't know where yet, but my main goal is to finally kill a large, heavy tusked boar. Can't wait! Any help in where to go for a camp-out Outback experience would be greatly appreciated.

[tradtusker]

there are a lot of good arrows out there John.

Im Using Beman MFX arrows, i like the thin diameter, they fly great and are tuff.
If your working towards a very High FOC arrow you will want a light shaft weight and try put all the weight at the front.

I foot the front on the shaft with 2 1/2" of Aluminum and the back of the arrow with 1cm of aluminum arrow. This really makes the arrow structurally much stronger.

I have the arrow set-up as mentioned above with 2x 100gr brass hit inserts then 125gr steel BH Adapter and then 175gr modified grizzly. that is 500grs up front. Total arrow weight of 900grs.

And for the second question.. yes your set-up would be good for Buff.  

And above everything as you know, "Perfect arrow flight" is very important!

[aussiehunter]

Divecon10, I have just sent you my details, ta.

Rik, sounds like you have a good set up for Buff- a lot of momentum  in that arrow. Good shooting!
Regarding hunting wild boars in Australia, Mike Baker is the person to talk to. He operates a hunting Safary and has about 7 properties runnng at the moment. He has different deer species, feral goats, water buffalo, scrub bull and feral boars. He is also a bowhunter so he understands our needs as Trad bowhunters. His contact number is 07 4779 8387 or his email ([email protected]). You can also talk to Andy (Tradtusker), the member above. He's been there before and has done some backpacking around Australia and a bit of hunting, I am sure he would help you as well. Hope this helps.

Tradtusker, I also like thin shafts to increase penetration. What size Beman MFX shaft should I choose for my setup above? I like the 900 grains figure for a Buff arrow. Thank you for the info!

[tradtusker]

Im using the 300 Spine beman i think with your set-up you would need the same.
Im shooting 73lbs

[aussiehunter]

Thanks Andy, much appreciated.

John

[fentiger]

Gents, is my goal of 750gns+ at 190fps way way too light? Would I be OK on smaller buff? At 60yrs+ and 9 months of recurves every 5# of draw increase becomes increasingly tuff:-]. Using compound sights and peep makes it quite interesting at full draw! Am presently at 67# and have one year to go before returning to OZ or go "T^!# up" trying. thanks

[JohnV]

For those of you who may be shooting marginal equipment for buff and have the ability to do so...a great way to test your equipment would be if one of your buddies would let you tag along on a buff hunt and after he kills one, you get to fire some arrows into the ribs to see what kind of penetration you get.

[ozy clint]

here is my buffulo setup. i am very pleased with it! you may care to read my other threads here on dangerous game.

equip specs-  bob lee signiture t/d recurve 58" 69#@28" i draw 28" from throat of grip.
string- endless 12 strand D97 with each loop padded with 6 strands of B50.

arrows are g/tip 7595
100gr insert
125gr b/head on 125gr adapter.
3/4" long footing of 2219. (mainly to stop the insert being driven back into the shaft)

inside the arrow upfront behind the insert i have a piece of white 8gr/" weight tube 90mm long inside of which is glued a piece of 4mm steel rod the same length. this is held in place by then filling the remains of the shaft with black 3gr/" weight tube.
4x4" shield feathers.

total arrow mass is 890gr. 26% foc.
speed at bow is approx 160-165fps


fentiger- what bow is pushing 790gr arrows at 190fps!! if i had a bow that good i would shoot 1000gr arrows and enjoy watching them blow through buffs.

[pdk25]

Originally posted by fentiger:
Gents, is my goal of 750gns+ at 190fps way way too light? ... Am presently at 67#...

Would you mind if I asked what bow you are shooting.  That sounds like pretty incredible performance to me, 190fps at 11 gpp.

[pdk25]

Sorry for the repeat question.  Didn't read Ozy Clint's post carefully enough.

[Rik]

For the two bulls I mentioned above, my 75-pound bow was shooting 860-grain arrows at 140 feet per second, creating momentum of 550.4

A bow shooting 790 grain arrows s at 190 feet per second would create momentum of 746.9. That is a significant amount of momentum.

>>>>------------>   Any Aussies out there reading this, I have a question. Are heavy buffalo-type arrows needed for scrub bulls?

[ozy clint]

rik- IMHO, no heavy tackle is not needed for bulls but it doesn't hurt. this bull was shot  at about 16 metres with a 55# samick deerslayer using gold tip arrows weighing 580grs. i got and exit hole too! they are a big animal but they aren't built anything like a buffulo. i would imagine that a big bull elk would have a hide as thick as a scrub bull. as you would know that is nothing compared to buff hide.
 

sorry, now back too the topic.

[fentiger]

Sorry if I mislead anyone. Please reread my posts. Do not have a set of limbs or ME that can acheive that at the moment.  As I said MY GOAL;-] I am only now at 70+-# just took delivery of brand new Belcher limbs.  
 I used a theoretical 85#+ set of "speed" limbs on a 19" Sky Riser with a 9gnpp apx arrow based on some bow tests I have read. Wrong in extrapolation or just dreaming? ps 'am a release shooter using peep and compound sights and hope to have different weight arrows all at apx 190fps for goats on up using different poundage limbs. Changing limbs is fairly quick, changing pins not so.
 Presently in mid 190fps with Belcher limbs out of a BBBGordon warf, guessing just under 8gnpp. Can I expect more speed out of his Sky TDX riser?
 Thanks for your help.

[fentiger]

BTW 750 gns @ 190 fps is a stunning 60# of KE and .63 lb-sec of momentum. Marginal at best or not? Switching to a skinny string gave me 10fps extra in one test.

[aussiehunter]

Clint, thanks you for sharing you set up in details. Just a question, was the scrub bull quartering away when you took the shot?
Nice animal.
You fellows gave me some very good info on arrows set ups in the 860-900grs range with EFOC for Dangerous  Games.
Ta
John

[Paul R]

Hey Dave, it's good to read you're building up to your buffalo weight limbs without a hitch.
It won't be long before you're standing in the Aussie bush again, bow in hand, this time only 15 yards from a black mountain of buffalo bull. Awesome!

10fps sure is an excellent gain for just the simple act of changing the string to one with fewer strands, nice one mate.