Ground hunting black bear, shotgun backup??

[capt eddie]

My son and I are going to bear hunt off the ground in Manitoba in June. Every year that I have been there They have had bears charge the boats and hunters are able to harvest there bear.  The management admit that the bear seem to be getting more aggresive towards hunter and the boats.  While waiting for the evening pickup I have had bear within 10 yards and refused to leave while yelled and hollered at them.  Only when the boat and lights hit it did they move off.  The question is if we should use 12ga slug of  000 buckshot?  Last year we were charged by a 250# boar that found our bear before we did. One slug in the shoulder stopped it but did not kill it.  Three more slugs in the shoulder finily killed it  That experience makes me think about 12 38cal to the head and chest would be better. Thank you for your input.

[Lechwe]

I've been around some aggressive bears but nothing like that. How do the CO's handle killing those bears? Pepper spray would be my first choice but you probably can't fly with it. If it was a gun I would go with a 12 gage and slug barrel with OO buck shot. I normally prefer slugs but you likely won't be as accurate in a situation like that.

Good luck.

[capt eddie]

We bought a tag for my wife and took it home.

[Bill Sant]

A lot of guys up here use what they call salt and pepper loads,ie slug, buck, slug ,buck, Birdshot, birdshot.  If the slugs and buskshot doesn't stop him at least the birdshot will tear his face off.

[JamesJamison]

I have never tried it, but I would imagine double ought buckshot would tear a bears head up pretty quick.  I sure would rather have that than birdshot if things got out of hand.

[Daz]

Late May-early June is mating season for Black bears across most of  Canada. What you are seeing is territorial displays. A twelve with buck/slugs alternating isn't a bad plan if it makes you feel better, but realistically a blast of pepper spray will do the job without killing it.
A 250lb'er in Manitoba sounds like a two and a half year old boar feeling his oats...

[calgarychef]

Bearspray has been proven to be just as effective and combined with the length of time it takes to get a gun in hand and aimed I'd take the spray instead.  Also who wants to be lugging around a shotgun.... they get heavy afer awhile.

[Ragnarok Forge]

Bear Spray have proven to be ineffective at times with a highly incensed bear that is charging. Some of the time it simply pisses the bear off even more. While effective Bear Spray is not 100%.  Where as a slug to the brain case or buckshot to the same spot at close range resolves the problem.  

If your forced to defend yourself aim at the head.  If you shoot high you hit spine, if you shoot low you hit vitals.  If you hit right on top of the head the bear will drop in its tracks.  Don't stop shooting until the bear is down.  Immediately start reloading and backing up.  They have been known to get back up after dropping.  

When I hunt and fish Alaska I carry a 12 guage riot gun with a smooth bore.  Never load buckshot into a slug barrel.  It messes up the rifling and screws up the shot pattern.  Loadings are slug - slug - buckshot - buckshot - buckshot.  

My grandad once told me if your think you might need a firearm you do.  Don't have that firearm when you need it just once and your frequently dead.  If your dealing with agressive bears instead of the normal ones we see in the lower 48 I would stick to a firearm and leave the bear spray for less agressive animals.

[capt eddie]

We plan on taking turns hunting from a deafall and the other person in a stand. The stander will have the shotgun backing up the ground hunter. I think this will be the safest for both party but still get the rush of being up close and personal with the bear.

[capt eddie]

We plan on taking turns hunting from a deafall and the other person in a stand. The stander will have the shotgun backing up the ground hunter. I think this will be the safest for both party but still get the rush of being up close and personal with the bear.

[Ragnarok Forge]

That is not a particularly good idea.  If your hunting together do it from the ground.  Way to easy to hit the hunter from above while swinging on a bear in charge.  Definately load only slugs if you do this.  Buckshot can spread and make it even more likely for the back up shooter to hit the hunter.  Will the back up be directly above you or off to the side?  Neither is good.  Off to the side could be border line suicidal.

[calgarychef]

You didn't mentioned that one hunter is going to stand guard while the other hunts, that does change things a bit from carrying the gun on your back.

If you're going to go for the shotgun approach I'd suggest doing some serious practising with it.  Set up a running targer and get good at that too.  See the problem with a firearm is ya gotta HIT your target and if you're not damned good with the gun the spray is the way to go.  

sounds like a fun hunt however you do it!

[TDHunter]

00 buck doesn't penetrate worth beans, low energy ft lbs, and those little balls have terrible sectional density. Yes you have more margin of error, but half the stopping power. if you want to stop a bear use a heavy slug ie. 1 1/4oz

Especially if your going to have it in the tree, (not the best plan) single projectile is the way to go. .

[calgarychef]

I don't have any particular ax to grind here just trying to help out...so I don't want this to turn into another pi$$ing match as often happens when we start to discuss firearms and stopping capabilities.  Something of a "my dad can beat your dad thing." So I'll say what I know and bow out of the conversation.


One of my hunting pals used to be on predator patrol for parks canada and has shot over 500 bears now he trains the new recruits.  So he's got the background to offer a valid opinion.  Coupled with the fact that he did his University thesis on bear behaviour I place a lot of trust in his opinions.  I doubt anyone here has shot that many bears if they have then their opinion has a lot of weight too.

I asked him one day "how well does buckshot work on bears?" His reply was "out to 40 yards it flattens them."  He loads his shot gun with the usualy array of slugs and buckshot and can unload the whole tube in 3 seconds so that's a hell of a lot of lead flying, whether it's slugs or buckshot.

 I asked him specifically what the average joe should use and he says unless you've trained with slugs a lot the buckshot is the way to go.  I've seen the training course that he runs for the new parks guys and it's pretty intense, more of a military excercise than anything else. They get a pass or fail by the way and aren't allowed to do certain work until they can pass the test.

I also know an outfitter who caters to a lot of bowhunters and his camp is in a great spot for color phased bears by the way.  Anyway I asked him what he uses for going after wounded bears and he says "hands down a 12 guage with buckshot."

I also asked the parks guy about bear spray and he said "it works very well.  He didn't put a percentage of effectivness on it and no one can.  Is it 80% or 99% heck I don't know!  I do know that it's a lot faster to get to than a shotty and easier to carry hence as hunters we will have it on hand more often. Also for close stuff it's easier to deploy.

Do I care what you carry?  Not at all suit yourself and practise with what you use and be profecient with it.

An additional point.  If you see a bear and shoot it at 40 yards that aint self defence and neither is it if you shoot him in a tree it's just "blasting a bear."

[bear track]

I've been guiding since 1985 and have guided over 700 guests. Been chased twice and ended it very quickly with any of the buckshots available. Even getting shot with AAA is like getting shot with 32 .22 mags. at once. It's devistating. I have had some wounded bears that were quickly dispatched with ssg, sg, and aaa. I always figured, if I had to use my shotgun for any reason, it was going to be needed quickly and I needed a pattern or killing bullets, rather than one well placed slug, which I most likely won't have time for, especially in the dark

[oldbohntr]

Interesting. When I saw the topic, I thought-not at all necessary for the black bears I've seen or hunted-what are these guys thinking about?  Now I know.  Thanks for the insight.

[Uncle Buck]

something to consider 00 buckshot .33 diameter 12 pellets per load ; #4 buckshot .25 diameter 27 pellets per load= absolutely devastating at close range

[Hatfield]

Dixie slug co. has what they call Tri-Ball ammo for your 12ga. which consist of 3 320gr. heat treated balls. From their test it shows a 5 inch group out to 40 yards, should be a wicked up close and personel self defense round.

[Tracks]

This topic has been argued about for years and it will continue to be argued over for a long time to come... Just like arrow selection, everyone seems to have an opinion about what is best, but what really matters is, "Can you hit your target when and where it counts?"  

I'm required to carry a 12 ga. or a .375 everyday of the summer for work. I like 1 3/8 ounce black magic slugs from the pump, but I prefer the rifle.

But I don't want to post anything about guns and bears without this warning:
While firearms definitely have their place in grizzly bear country, don't let the false security of a firearm change your behavior! It is easy to say, but hard to do. I constantly find myself moving with less purpose and being less observant when carrying a gun.

Not only that, but bears, and especially black bears, bluff (including bluff charge) a lot. Sure "shooting first and asking questions later" is usually the best way to go if a bear is within 10 yards and closing the distance, but avoiding the charge in the first place shows the most respect for the animal, for bowhunting, and for oneself.

That and don't be "bearanoid." If you are expecting to be charged, something is wrong with the way you view bears, or with the bear-human relationship in your hunting area.

The scenario painted by the original poster (bears regularly charging boats and people) suggests that the outfitter in the area is mismanaging his clients/guides and/or his waste/baiting stations. Frequent and regular bear attacks are not normal and are highly undesirable. I would find a new place to hunt because something is wrong at that camp.

[ammoeater]

Well said, Tracks.