Ground hunting black bear, shotgun backup??

[LBshooter2]

I have to agree with calgarychef. Take some 00 buck out and shoot it into some material, plywood or whatever you can find and watch what it is does it's deadly. If you have to shoot a bear it will be close and 00buck will certainly work. Just make sure you practice your shooting under pressure. Run in place or around in circles and get your heart rate up then pick up the gun and see what you can do, good luck.

[187BOWHUNTER]

So everyone is talking Canadian bears? or are all black bears that dangerous? We have black bears here in Cali but the guys Iv'e talked to that have run into them while deer hunting say they usually run away from you, but with my luck I would run into the bad mood bear!

[borderlander]

I had one bad news bear on my land a few years ago. He was old, big (about six feet on his back legs), and he knew he was the baddest thing in the woods. He chased me, and neighbors, out of the woods numerous times. I saw my closest neighbor hit him with a load of buck at close range as the bear was walking towards his kids in their swimming pool. That bear started roaring n snarling, spinning n snapping like you wouldn't believe. For smaller bears I'm sure buck works. But with the big guys, I'd like to tote something that would be appropriate to hunt them with no exceptions.

[Geezer]

When you have all the time in the world to pick your shot my favorite is still a heavy load slug.  But, when conditions are dicey and speed is of the essence you probably won't go wrong with high energy buckshot.  Several years ago, our agency began using low-velocity slugs and buckshot (the prevailing thought among LE at the time was to prevent wall pas-throughs to avoid hitting innocents in another room).  Unfortunately, my 870 was loaded with that type of ammo when I had a true charge situation from a black bear.  The one slug penetrated 2" while all the buckshot ended up under the hide.  It was my partners 40 S&W that eventually killed the bear.  I lodged a complaint with the Chief and we got rid of the low-vel junk.  Take the meanest, hardest hitting ammo you can buy!

[capt eddie]

An update on our bear hunt.  The first night that we got to hunt, we picked differant stands because they had both been hit.  Since this was my sons first chance to see a live bear.  I suggested that he get in the stand to see what if feels like to have a beqar that closes.  we were the first hunters of the year.  So they had only scented the guides coming in and out.  He is in the stand that is 8 foot high at the most.  Barrel is 12 yards away.  Two black bear come in.  One goes to the barrel and starts to eat.  The other bear come up to the stand bluff charging  several times.  It even puts a paw on the ladder.  The whole time the other bear has his head inthe barrel.  My son kicks and the bear and trys the run in off or at least get inaway from the stand for a shoot.  Twice it ran past the eating bear but the bear paid no mind.  Just went back to eatting.  The bear finely stops eatting and offers a broadside.  He made a perfect shot with a 53# recurve, carbon arrow with a snoffer.  Bear traveled 50 yards.  i on the other hand, was bluff charged every day I was in the stand.  it was a young bear that knew that something was there,  Everytime he would come within 10 feet of the stand.  I was holding out for a color or something larger then my orther bears. Finely on the last night to hunt, the bear came in again.  I decided to shoot it ths time.  I was shooting a 60# longbow with a 160 grizzly.  600 grain arrow total.  As I draw he took a step, He was so close that i was looking at the claws on his foot in awe of the details, And that is exactly where I hit..  Now the rest of the story.  The first night that i was getting out of the boat, I had my bow strung in a case.  I opened the case to retreive what I thought was a 74# Acadian Wood Treestick.  It was there but A 4 piece takedown instead of a three piece.  I just could not figure out how to REATTACH an Antler tip!!!!!.  My son left me his bow while he and the guide motored back to camp and delivered my a set of 60# limbs to go on my riser.  he guides have all noticed that the bears ar far more aggressive now then in years past.  So we did not have to worry about shotgun choices.

[SERGIO VENNERI]

what Daz said.

[ThecoyoteslayerMA]

This won't answer your question,but for me the point of hunting dangerous game is danger in it,a good reason I got into traditional hunting is the fact that it evens the fields up a little. So they can take you as easily as you took it. This is just MY opinion and doesnt apply to a lot of peaple,I don't have a wife/ kids to worry about.

[KodiakMag]

Having a backup 12 ga with alternating 000 buck and heavy slugs (think 3 1/2" chamber) also the .460 Rowland is a viable sidearm in those locations.


ALso, congrats to your son! Sounds like a great time that you had together.

[Iron Man2]

I have seen this type of question all over the internet, at hunting camps, and at the range. All I can add is that it comes down to a choice. Whether to pack additional heat as a side arm for a traditional (-list). My answer is simple, how pure do you want your experience to be? I equate this to the those that say wooden arrows vs carbon? For me, the main reason I am embarking into Trad Archery is for the experience. And if I chose to hunt for dangerous game with traditional gear, then, sobeit. It has made me a better hunter and the experience that more fulfilling. And just in case anyone was thinking, yes I have hunted in dangerous country with both archery and firearms. And have stalked many bears and killed two on the ground after a very fulfilling experience. Not that killing one treed or from a stand is any less for some.  

[capt eddie]

Disclaimer:::
The removeable antler it is not the fault of Tim Mullins the Bowyer.  I bought the limbs second hand and I had replaced the tip after it coming off a year before. Tim did rework the limbs and replace the tip with my Amazon wood at no charge to me.  And for that I do thank Tim for his time and effort.

[Iron Man2]

Originally posted by Iron Man2:
I have seen this type of question all over the internet, at hunting camps, and at the range. All I can add is that it comes down to a choice. Whether to pack additional heat as a side arm for a traditional (-list). My answer is simple, how pure do you want your experience to be? I equate this to the those that say wooden arrows vs carbon? For me, the main reason I am embarking into Trad Archery is for the experience. And if I chose to hunt for dangerous game with traditional gear, then, sobeit. I will hunt with a traditional recurve and no firearm. It has made me a better hunter and the experience that more fulfilling. And just in case anyone was thinking, yes I have hunted in dangerous country in both archery and firearms seasons, independently. And have stalked many bears and killed two on the ground after a very fulfilling experience. Not that killing one treed or from a stand is any less for some.      

[Longbowz]

I suppose you could call a bear rushing an elevated stand a bluff charge.  Black bears do it all the time to each other.  Which is what I've always thought the bear thinks a hunter in a treestand is - another bear that’s afraid of them.

I wouldn't get too worried about it.  Heck they could climb up and sniff my foot and I still wouldn't think I needed a backup firearm.  If it's an excuse to buy a gun then do it.  Better yet if your worried about such things like this then get a can of bear spray and stop worrying.

Bears are just plain fun to watch as they interact with each other.  They deserve respect but don't deserve getting needlessly shot unless they are truly in your face and you know without doubt they mean business which is extremely rare.

[wapitirod]

I'd definitely go with the back up and since the bear will be getting closer if it charges I see no need for slugs just 00 or 000 buck.  I've been charged by blackies and followed some up in some not so good situations.  I've also been ambushed by one cat and had another try it.  I am first and foremost a hunter and I like all weapons, I've chosen to go back to traditional archery for the challenge although my profession is building hunting handguns which of course are not an option in Canada.  I decided a long time ago that no amount of purism was worth taking a chance on my life and even before OR legalized carrying a side arm while bowhunting I was carrying.  I carry either a 3.5" 44spcl loaded with hardcast bullets or I carry a 45LC.  I build guns that make those look like toys up to monsters producing 5000ftlbs of muzzle energy.  I chose to carry the smaller handguns because of controlability.  You can have the biggest cannon in the world but if you can't handle it or can't get back on target fast enough for a follow up it's useless.  I say have the back up gun and just make sure whoever is using it can handle it.  A quick little story about buckshot though to keep you from taking things for granted.  About 25 years ago I shot a blacktail doe with buckshot at about 30yds just to do something different.  The deer dropped at the shot and I dragged her back to the truck to field dress her as it was only a couple hundred yards.  I had heard some noise that I wrote off to gas being expelled but as soon as I started to spread the legs to open her up she came to life.  I had to fall on top of her to keep from getting kicked to pieces.  Fortunately my uncle was there but he couldn't do much because of all the thrashing but he finally severed her neck with a hatchet.  That was a 125lb deer so if you have to put a bear down don't assume the buckshot will be fatal just because it goes down, pay the insurance.

[ak3blade]

"I decided a long time ago that no amount of purism was worth taking a chance on my life and even before OR legalized carrying a side arm while bowhunting I was carrying."
Well said wapitrod. This year I will be carrying a 2" Ruger Alaskan in a .454 with 360gr. bullets. I hope I never have to use it in self defense, but it is a comforting thought to know its with me for the "just in case" moments.

[wapitirod]

ak3, that's a perfect weapon for a back up.  I build hunting handguns for a living and the 454 is one of my favorite rounds even though in revolvers I go up to the 500 (510) Linebaugh and Max and my single shots so far I've gone as big as the 458 Lott.  I've seen alot of people underestimate the killing power of a handgun just like they do with recurves and longbows but I've built handguns that would make alot of rifles cry.  That 458 single shot makes over 5000ftlbs of muzzle energy and will stop anything and everything up to and including T-Rex.

[ak3blade]

wapitirod, do you have a web site?

[wapitirod]

yep it's dixiefirearms.net

[Ibow]

This has been an interesting thread to read and re the original question, I guess it's a mute point now but I can add this as a postscript... I've bear hunted from the ground a few years back in Manitoba, 11 yards from the bait. Most nights I was surrounded by bears yet never felt threatened by any of them except one ... A younger bear that bluffed/charged the entire night. He was a cocky little bugger. Finally after he got within a step or two of me, showing his teeth and puffing away, I gave him one last chance to back off when I yelled at him. When he didn't, I gave him a snoot full of spray. Never saw him again.    :p

I hunted in Alberta this past spring and when I asked my outfitter about doing it from the ground, without hesitation he said, "No." Looking back it was probably a good thing. I never saw so many bears in all my life. It was absolutely amazing. Best bear hunt I've ever been on and I hope to go back again next spring.

Great thread to read with lots of info and advice. Enjoyed it.

[LBshooter2]

I would load a slug,00 buck and then instead of bird shot I would go  with #4 buck shot. I would feel very confident with my M1S90 at the ready.

[Firstlight]

Lot's of good opinions.  We have a lot of bear's here on Vancouver Island.  Just ran into one walking the dog a few weeks ago.

Here is what I do:  12 gauge (18.5") loaded with one slug and the rest buckshot.  Chamber is empty with safety off.  

Why is the chamber empty and safety off?  In a PANIC   situation (Bear charging you without warning) it will be difficult to have the where with all to release the safety with a thumb versus just quickly pumping a round into the chamber.  

The reason I only use one slug and the rest shot is because the several bear charging stories I have heard is that if it happens it often happens very fast.   Thus, after the fist slug is  shot it's more about pray and spray (while aiming) and hoping for the best.

It's thick bush up here and running into a bear at 10 yards happens!

RE:  Back up shooter in a tree.  I personally would not be comfortable with this.  I would want a back up shooter pretty much right behind me.  I'd hit the deck if charged knowing my backup is reliable and right  behind me, close!