MAPLE SIGHT WINDOW '59 HAS ARRIVED

[johnnyrazorhead]

CKruse,
 The serial number on this one is BA259.Does that makeit an earlier production bow?Thanks for your info on the grooves.

[johnnyrazorhead]

Now I'm debating on whether I should install an original Bear ompass in the riser like Fred had on his hunting bows and/or a Bear factory quiver bushing in the grip for a screw in quiver.I've always wanted to put a compass in one of my hunting bows but I mainly shoot the '59 and '60 Kodiaks and hate to start drilling them full of holes,especially when they're all original and pretty clean.This one has already been altered a bit with the new limb tips so it doesn't seem as bad to do it.What do you guys think?Would you do it if it was your bow.Keep in mind it is not 100% original due to the limb tips being changed.I do want to hunt with it and how sweet would it be to have an inlaid compass and orignal Bear screw on leather-top quiver to go hunting with.

[johnnyrazorhead]

That should say compass,not ompass.Me and my fat little fingers.

[ckruse]

It really depends on who you ask! Being a maple window, it's an early one all right. I've seen one marked BB that was cut clear through. I think it may have depended on who was holding the nock file-at least for a time. I was told B indicates a 60" Kodiak, and then they went with each series BA000,BB000,BC000.. and so on. This was info I got from Wade Phillips several years ago. However, it has been disputed by several folks I'd consider to be very knowlegeable too! I think the only guy that knows has been gone a few years. "But in the wind he's still alive"...CKruse

[johnnyrazorhead]

CKruse.Ya,I know what you mean.I know alot of the serial numbers but some get confusing,especially these earlier ones.My other 60" maple sight window is also a BA serial number,my 64" starts with DA.

[alaskabowhunter]

I own 3 maple site windows, BA452, BA596, both 60", 50#. (One is a shooter and one is a wall-hanger.) and DA238 64" 46#. I have never seen any variance in the serial numbers as far as the BA and DA designations. The dream bow would be to find a AAxxx maple site window. Which would be a 56" Kodiak of course. . So far that bow has never been found. Bear Archery may not have had the 56 inch form ready for the 1959 Kodiak until they were using purple-heart in the i-beam construction. But ya never know!

 John, I think having the bow refinished is a great idea for a bow you are going to shoot. Compass or quiver bushing?? can you do both? if not I'd vote compass.

[johnnyrazorhead]

Chuck,
 I checked the serial number on my other 60" maple and it's 10 digits away from yours.BA462.Pretty cool.And yes,finding a 56" maple sight window '59 would be sweet.

 I'm not sure if I can do both compass and quiver bushing,I'll research a little more before I do anything.I think if it's one or the other I would do a compass too.

[d. ward]

Cool bow John.As for all the cracks if it were me and I were going to shoot that bow very often,I would most likely repair her at some point.Mostly just to prevent any moisture damage.
Trap the LDB also had that belly glass added after the fact same as Val's did.But to answer your ???'s no it really don't help putting a piece over it.When those come unglued they are comeing unglued from the corewood and really does not matter if something were added over the top.Looks cool.99% of the bows you see prior to 1959 that were cut into the corewood were fine shooters and kind of never really had any problems.The problems happen when you slide the limb tip across something like your carpet and they got snagged along eather side of the string groove..But adding something over the top would not help once it were cut to the original string groove shape again.It still lieves the two edges exposed for snagging...bd

[johnnyrazorhead]

Thanks bowdoc.I'll will definitely take your advice and have them filled.I can't wait to shoot it.

[d. ward]

Yes John about 75-80% of the bows that do have cracks seem to never get any worse with just a little use.However if your planing on shooting it during hunting season I would most likely try and keep moisture out of them...bd

[Wade Phillips]

John – Except for Fred’s personal bows, there are not many 1959 Kodiaks around with both an originally factory installed compass and quiver bushing for you to use as examples of their survivability over the past 50 years… Even for Fred’s personal bows, you need to keep in mind that they were not used much more than perhaps a single year, as he was almost always shooting the next year’s model as soon as shootable models were available.

In my collection, I have only one 1959 Kodiak that has both an original factory installed compass and quiver bushing. Floyd Eccleston bought the bow from Fred in 1959 and Floyd used it extensively for a number of years. I talked with Floyd about the bow the last time I saw him a couple of months before his death. Floyd told me it was his favorite personal bow. I would guess that you have a photograph of this bow, but may not realize that you have it as the bow is pretty well camouflaged in the photograph. Let me know if you can not locate a photograph of Floyd’s 1959 Kodiak, and I will make sure that you have a copy. Unfortunately, Floyd’s 1959 Kodiak is cracked below the grip. The cause of the crack is apparently due to both the compass and quiver bushing holes.

I have installed several quiver bushings in 1959 and 1960 Kodiaks for my personal hunting use, and have never had any problems even though the bows have endured extended soakings in rain as well as frequent temperatures well below zero. However, installing both a Compass and Quiver Bushing could provide enough weakness in the grip area for a crack, especially under hunting conditions as harsh as Michigan’s. The weather harshness in Floyd’s old hunting areas in north central Michigan and Canada are probably not much different than you find at the same time of year in south eastern Michigan, neither would be much different than here in Nebraska. Also, I would strongly suggest that any vintage bow be professionally refinished before it is used in potentially harsh hunting conditions. The survivability of 1959 Kodiaks with both a compass and a quiver bushing, may depend more on the total mass of the wood in the riser, rather than anything other than stress from drawing the bow. As I’m sure you know the size of the 1959 Kodiak grip varies greatly according to the draw weight of the bow and the fluctuations of the individual finishing. Many of the Maple Window 59s have a very narrow grip, which would likely be the least desirable candidates for adding additional holes for a compass and quiver bushing.

 

[d. ward]

John I would say a lot of the problems with the 1959 Kodiaks delaminating along the ibeam was do to moisture or water damage rather then stressing the bow.If you note about 99% of quiver bushings are drilled right to the purple heart or in your case maple ibeam.There's no finish in that hole and only 2-3 drops of water will make the unfinished wood swell inside the hole causeing expansition cracks in the glue line.If you think about it there is really no stress on the side slabs of the bow pending the bow is straight.You know a long bow type handle is much slimmer then a 1959 Kodiak and Lb's will handle plenty of weight.Bouts 90% of cracked ibeam 1959's were cracked because of step through stringing or in some cases the bows were dropped while strung(thats not good).If you just put a couple drops of super glue into the bottom of the quiver bushing hole will sure help keep water out..I've seen several 59's in the 60+ pound range with both quiver bushing and compass I believe Joe's 60# has both compass and bushing and never had any trouble cracking.As long as everything is straight and in line you should not have any problemo with it.bd

[johnnyrazorhead]

Thanks for all the help with this matter of the compass and/or quiver bushing.I see where having the compass installed into the leather grip similar to the original Kodiak II as well as a quiver bushing might weaken the riser with those holes being so close together.I was thinking of following Fred Bear's lead and installing the compass well below the grip further down on the riser.I see by looking at some old photos of Fred on his Little Delta Hunt in 1959 that he does have a quiver bushing installed on his '59 Kodiak but can't tel if he also has a compass as it would be on the oposite side of the riser according to the photo I have included.This is an advertising poster of some of Fred's personal hunting bows.As you can see,he has his compasses installed further down on the riser than into the leather grip such as Wade shows on his bow.This is where I thought to install my compass.Do you think with a compass installed down lower like this,with a quiver bushing installed in the usual spot down low in the leather grip,that it would lessen the chance of weakening the bow?I would still put some Super Glue in the holes as Doc suggests.The top bow in the picture appears to be a '59 Kodiak and most of the photos I've seen of Fred around that time frame show his bows using a quiver mounted into a quiver bushing so I woould assume this bow has a quiver bushing as well as a compass.The bushing would of course be on the side of the bow not shown.What is your opinion.Would this further distance of the holes be better?
 

[kurtbel5]

Whats the middle bow's model?? Ive never seen that one?
  Thanks Kurt

[johnnyrazorhead]

The middle bow is another one of Bear's proto-type take-down bows that they were working on around that time period(mid 1960's)I believe that bow is shown in one of the Bear Archery films available now on DVD with Fred talking about the history of Bear Archery.The "latches" on the limbs actually work similar to a double-barrel shotgun where you slide a lever over to the side and release the latch and then out pop the limbs.Still not what Fred was looking for.

[d. ward]

Hey John have you ever seen one of Al Readers personal shooters ? Al actually scallops the lower limb about like the sight window right where you see Fred's compass mounted ? Al cuts a lot of stock out of that area and has never had any problems.He does only shoot 40# but his lower limb scallops are quite deep.bd

[johnnyrazorhead]

No Doc,never seen one of Al's bows.I've heard he does some custom alteations,mostly to the limbs but I haven't personally seen any.

[d. ward]

I may have a pic of one of Al's bows around here somewhere.
OK I had to dig through over 550 Bear Kodiaks in my shop to find this beast for you and here she is.1957 Kodiak with original factory compass and quiver bushing.52 years old and still running strong...cool bow.bd  ..

[Grant Young]

John's right about the "middle" bow. That was the first TD (at least that anyone was made aware of) that Papa took to Africa for the cape buff. The film John mentioned shows this bow in a little more detail- its appears in the film to be of an I-beam construction. Pretty cool--Grant

[d. ward]

keeping it up for Johnnyboy......bd