Fred Bear 1940s Take Down – Original Snake Skin Back

[Wade Phillips]

This all original 1940s Fred Bear Osage Take Down Deerslayer is branded “Bear Products by Grumley”. It is the only known all original Snake Skin Back Bear Grumley Take Down. The well concealed take down feature is a patented 3-piece Grenier Bow Hinge that operates with the solid function of a bank vault.

The good old days, photo left to right, Barney Grenier, Nels Grumley, Bill Loomis, Fred Bear; lunch while warming up around the fire, wood bows, wood arrows, leather boots, and wool clothing…

 

[alaskabowhunter]

Have you seen any other snakeskin backed Grumleys besides Fred's Deerslayer in the Bear Museum ? "Nice bow" is an understatement.... "wow" does not do it justice either...a holy grail of collecting for sure.

[turkey522]

Thanks for sharing.
  Terry

[d. ward]

Thats a cool bow right there.......bd

[cacciatore]

Incredible,it is a joy to follow you guys

[johnnyrazorhead]

Chuck,
 I've got some photos of another Detroit Archer with a snakeskin backed Grumley bushbow.

[Wade Phillips]

Chuck - There are only two other Original Snake Skin Back Grumleys that I have documented. However, they are not Take Down bows… I have original 1940s photographs of those two Grumleys with their original owners shooting them.

I have also seen those two other Snake Skin Back Grumleys and photographed them. As unbelievable as it sounds, they both still survive to this day, although only one is still in original condition.

The two men who originally owned those two bows were Fred Bear (who else), and his 1940s employee, Gordon Campbell, also of Detroit. Yes I photographed and saw Fred's Snake Skin Deerslayer many times when the museum was in Grainesville.

John, Who is the other Detroit Archer you have photographs of with a Snake Skin Grumley Bushbow?

[Grant Young]

Hey Wade- one of Fred's favorite bows was a snakeskin backed "Deerslayer" 70# BY Grumley- what's the wt. on this one? Thanks for posting this,        Grant

[Grant Young]

Ooops- should have read every post. GY

[Wade Phillips]

Grant - The 1930s and 1940s branded BEAR PRODUCTS BY GRUMLEY bows that I have were not marked in any other way, no weight, no length, no serial number. An anal retentive organized bow collector's nightmare. I'm not going to string and weight this one. Some later Grumley era Bears were marked in code.

Grant - About the weight. It is just a little thicker than another solid osage Deerslayer (1-piece) I have, which just happens to be one of Fred's personal bows as documented on a video tape of Floyd Eccleston. I would have to guess the weight of Fred's 1-piece Deerslayer to be somewhere around 65#, the Snake Skin Back T/D is probably a little heavier.

[Wade Phillips]

Fred Bear’s First Take Down Bow Patent

This really makes you appreciate all of the advances in Fred’s thoughts from his Takedown Bow patent application filed in 1945 to the one filed in 1968.

 

[Grant Young]

Thanks for the info Wade. There is a good picture of Fred shooting his rattlesnake backed static in Charlie Kroll's book. What was memorable about it was that the photo looked to have been shot in the late fifties or early sixties as all the troops were shooting more modern designs. Another thing came to my attention recently also that probably has no significance but I think its worth passing along to this group; according to an interview with an old Bear employee Fred actually insisted that his hunting bows be exactly 71#@ 28 even though he always claimed 65# for whatever reason. If you catch the old film of his Grizz hunt with Fess Parker he even states there that his bow is 70#. Just trivia I know, but its still kind of interesting, doncha think?        Grant

[Wade Phillips]

Grant - Glad you enjoyed the information.

Also interesting to hear your account from employees that Fred insisted his hunting bows be exactly 71# at 28" even. I remember Fred telling Fess Parker that his bow was 70#... and have always wondered if Fred mis-spoke.

Even back in the Grumley days Fred's arrows were 28" even. I have one of his wooden 1945 Moose arrows, exactly 28". Fred inscribed his name and dated it. The arrows are also verified in many photographs of that hunt as well as his seldom seen and little known film, "Moose Diary".

[d. ward]

Oh may what a difference from the first Fred T/D virus what we think of as a bear take down today with the socket and yoke system.I took this apart for pics.Hey I do have one spare screw for that latch if someone has a broken Grumley in need of the screw..bd        

[huntersim]

Thanks for sharing Wade. That's a terrific looking bow. Any idea why they didn't use the Grenier hinge more often?

Also, hard to tell by the photo but it looks like the characteristic black overlays on the tip weren't used?

Matt

[d. ward]

I thought the hook latch was super cheap cost wise compaired to the hinge.
Wade would you have a pic or two of any Bear bows with the new moon type latch ???? thanks bd

[johnnyrazorhead]

Wade,
 Not sure if you knew or not,but I believe your snake-skin Grumley originally belonged to a Dr. M.A. Young.I think he was a dentist.Obviously he could afford the best.

[Wade Phillips]

Matt - I only know of 2 BEAR PRODUCTS BY GRUMLEY bows that have the Grenier hinge. Fred had his own latch as shown in the patent and docs photographs. I'm sure Fred made more money and promoted his company if he used his own latch on his bow.

The Solid Wood Grumleys seldom had tip overlays. The later laminated wood Grumleys almost always had the black tip overlays that you ask about.

[Bjorn]

It is downright inspiring to listen in, and feel the passion you real collectors share.
I for one need an infusion like this on a periodic basis just to keep me in there as a fringe player.
Thanks gentlemen.

[Wade Phillips]

BowDoc - I have 2 or 3 variations of the New Moon bow latch, but none of them are on Grumleys. Actually the New Moon was a very nice T/D system. New Moon was from Denver, home of Fleetwood who did use New Moon Latches in their day. I have a circa 1949 woven glass back Fleetwood Bow with an original New Moon Latch. Certainly no Grumley but a fairly nice bow for its day.

Again, Bear wanted to use his own T/D latch as I'm am certain that he made more money using it rather than paying some other manufacturer for a different T/D system.

I agree, Bear's T/D Latch may have been the least expensive to produce given all other factors equal. However if a guy worked in a machine shop and made them on company time with company materials, with no overhead, the lunch box guy could be more than competitive with his out of pocket cost per unit. In the 1940s, competition and compensation was sometimes different than what many of us know today.

Lots of other cool old T/D systems from the 1940 era. Hey I have some T/D systems dating back to the 1870s patents. Have thought of a book titled "Take Down Bows 1871-1971". That would start with the old and finish up with Fred's last T/D patent...