Your personal "Holy Grail" collectible bow

[PAPALAPIN]

We have visted "What is you best find" now let's visit "what is your Personal HOLY GRAIL of traditional Archery collecting". be it a particular bow or other item.

To start, mine would be my ever ellusive Jack Howard Target Master Supreme.

We all know I am technologically challenged and can't post pictures.  Rich has a picture of it so I hope he will post it here.

[Steelhead]

For me its the 64 inch Kodiak 59er.I love the length,look and shootability.I looked for one for quite a while in  good shape and the right poundage and found one.Its even better shooting than I thought it would.

[alaskabowhunter]

56 inch maple site window Kodiak.... 1959 model of course..

[d. ward]

Jack is this something we own right now or ? if its something we own now I got way to many of them.I love em all...bd

[PAPALAPIN]

I was interested in the ones you crave but have never found.  Who knows, if you post it here someone may chime in and say they hae it.  Gives you an opportunity to make a deal on it.

Problem with this is the big thing is the quest for it.  Once you find it, the quest is over.  Kinda like it is not so much the destination as it is the trip to get there.

Some may have found their "Holy Grail".  If so, feel free  to post it if you like, but that would really fall under "your greatest find"

[ckruse]

I guess mine would have to be a really nice original B handle takedown with some #2 white tip limbs about 50#. Something really cherry with all the paperwork and original case would be the cherry on top! I've had the opportunity for several in years past, but I'm always a broke bast@rd when one comes along!

A close second would be a cherry maple-window 59 in 64" 50#! CKruse

[johnnyrazorhead]

CKruse.I left you a private message.

[Wade Phillips]

Jack – Great idea for a thread. I have many unfound Holy Grails… Here is one of the best in the recurve line… an actual documented bow, that was pictured in the 1960 Bear Catalog as the Kodiak DeLuxe… but in fact has a totally and completely different riser configuration than what collectors know as the Kodiak DeLuxe…

The commonly accepted Kodiak DeLuxe has a curved inset of Zebra Wood in the riser and a sow belly. The bow in the 1960 Bear Catalog photograph is actually a standard 1960 Kodiak with Zebra Wood Veneer under Clear Glass… How many guys have previously looked at this photograph and not identified this bow accurately…?

The Holy Grail that I am looking for is the actual bow pictured in the 1960 Bear Catalog, which can be easily identified by the gain in the Zebra Wood on the belly. I have a nice 4-figure nest egg set aside to acquire this Holy Grail… Post photographs if you own this bow…

This is the only 1960 Bear Catalog photograph that identifies a Kodiak DeLuxe … I’ll bet it is different than the Kodiak DeLuxe in most Bear Bow Collections…

 

[TRAP]

Were the pictures in the Early Bear Catalogs actual photographs or an artist's painting of actual photographs.  

I don't have the Catalog so I'm just asking.

Trap

[Wade Phillips]

Trap - Good question, an image expert might know.

Photograph or painting, take your pick, either way, a very noticeably different bow was used to create the image for 1960 Kodiak DeLuxe in the 1960 Bear Catalog...

[Bjorn]

Lots of Holy Grails for lots of different levels.
I got a 1959 Kodiak MSW-no coin and black ink. It is 60" and 48#. Bowdoc thanks for your help in zeroing in on the fine points of this bow-I asked about some appropriate gold ink for the lettering  :D  
 

[TRAP]

The reason I asked the question is, to me it looks like maybe the artist got his or her pictures mixed up a little and painted grain on the 60 Kodiak and didnt paint grain on the 60 Kodiak Deluxe.  He or she has also put black and white overlays on the riser shown horizontally and I don't think that is correct for a Deluxe

If the image was created by an artist there's no assurance that your "Holy Grail" even exists, but if it does I hope you find it and get to spend your nest egg.

You could turn the un-documented variation into a documented variation.

Trap

[Wade Phillips]

Another of many unfound Holy Grails that I am looking for… The three bows below show what we as collectors accept as the Kodiak DeLuxe in 3 lengths, 56”, 60”, 64”… I am looking for the 60” bow marked with serial number IA001 to go with the first and third bows shown in this photograph which have serial numbers HA001 (56”) and LA001 (64”), each being the first Crystalight DeLuxe produced and numbered for its length…

If you know the owner of IA001, please contact me so I can send you your well deserved reward…

Jack – This photograph of 3 actual bows shows a very different riser than the image in the 1960 Bear Catalog for the Kodiak DeLuxe…

 

[Wade Phillips]

Trap – I am sorry, I apologize, I did not mean to call you “Jack”

Trap – I love you. You ask great questions, that need to be answered. If I disagree with you it is only because we have different points of view, which is healthy.

As you suggest, the artist could have been mixed up a little and painted grain on the 60 Kodiak and didn’t paint grain on the 60 Kodiak Deluxe.

However, as for the black and white overlays on the riser shown horizontally… While you may be correct on this point, remember tip overlays, riser overlays, coins and other easily changed cosmetic features are simply just that, cosmetic features that you will find many variations in over time. No disrespect intended, but collectors who put 100% store in dating bows by overlays, are going to be very disappointed when I ask them to date the odd ball bows in my collection by using only the factory original overlays. If we are betting money or bows, they will loose this bet every single time. Remember, there are lots of exceptions in overlays, especially 1960 bows.

Your next statement is very true!… “If the image was created by an artist there's no assurance that your "Holy Grail" even exists,..”

Equally true is the fact that if an artist created the image exactly as the photograph was, the “Holy Grail” may still exist.

Trap – You also state… “You could turn the un-documented variation into a documented variation.”

I am sorry, but on this statement, you are incorrect. First, this is already a “documented variation” as it is shown in the 1960 Catalog, and is clearly documented.

I am looking for an Unfound “Documented Variation”… (even though you have your reasons to suspect the documentation is not accurate)

For the past two decades I have been looking for this bow as shown in the 1960 Catalog… Please don’t tell me that there is no possibility that it exists…

What do you want to bet, that evidence will be presented that you are incorrect on this point?

What if we each put up a 60” Rosewood Sight Window 1959 Kodiak ???

[Bjorn]

Trap, Wade, it is only fitting that an impartial 3rd party hold the bets, I'll PM my address.......

[d. ward]

dang I still can't come up with anything.bd

[alaskabowhunter]

this thread is costing me sleep at night....

[TRAP]

Wade, sorry, betting a cold soda is more my speed but I'd be cool with that if you would.

I don't have a 60" Rosewood Sight Window 1959 Kodiak to wager, sorry Bjorn, and I doubt I ever will unless I find one in some obscure place where those with deep pockets havent been.    

I agree that debates can be healthy, positive  and mentally challenging, if done in a respectful manner.  I learn something everday whether I want to or not.

In the catalog, the small caption states "Actual size color photo of Kodiak Deluxe"  and if that's an actual photograph I'd say the bow is or was out there somewhere.  If it's an artist's image of actual photographs I'd contend that it may not have ever existed.  

Like I said, I don't have an authentic 1960 catalog so I have no idea. The image you posted in this thread looks like an image created by an artist  of an actual photo.  

Based on what has been presented thus far I think there's an element of human (artist) error which would keep that bow from being a true reality.  

Now that I've stuck my neck out, I'm sure you're going to show us the actual photograph of the bow which the artist used.  And that's cool, I'd pay the price of a soda to see it.

Jack, to get back to your thread topic, I've found my "Holy Grail".  I'm looking for the bow depicted in the image alongside Wade's "Holy Grail". I believe it's a 1960 Kodiak Deluxe or Kodiak Special Deluxe (not sure which bow is pictured there) with an orange or brown glass belly.  

I'll get to work on setting a meager 3 digit nest egg aside to buy it when it comes along    

I think it's still okay to dream isnt it;)

Trap (Jack) Double DD or whatever

[Wade Phillips]

Trap - I really appreciate your point of view. You have forced me to think, which doesn't happen very often. I fully understand your skepticism about the images in the catalogs as well the skepticism towards the possibility of the existence of this bow.

You will have to admit, for a Bear Bow Collector, looking for this specific "Holy Grail", would be logical. Knowing that I have found many things in the past, that some believed could not be found, I remain the eternal optimist.

I'm sorry to report that I do not have the actual photograph that was used for the catalog. I wish I did.

I will accept your bet of a cold soda, but if you should loose, in place of the soda, I would like to receive a feather rest, identical to the one shown on the Kodiak DeLuxe in the 1960 Bear Catalog.

Do you care to set a time limit for our bet?

Most respectfully - The Eternally Optimistic Collector in search of he Holy Grail...

[TRAP]

Well, I'm pretty sure a turkey's unique "barring" is somewhat like his fingerprint so my rest being "identical" is not within the realm of possibility.

I do have one that is pretty darn close (similarily barred) though if you'll allow me to stand that up against a cold soda.  

I might warn you that Bjorn likes the feather rests and probably gets a bit thirsty occasionally so we might not want him to "hold the bets".

I'll let you set the time limit, I'm fairly certain you already have the bet won and you're just not disclosing the evidence untill I've committed.  

Therefore the time limit will most likely be determnined by how soon you want the rest.  

If you win you'll have a rest for the Holy grail once you find it.  If I win I'll raise a "Toast" with my cold soda to all of us finding our "Holy Grails" at some point in our collecting endeavors.

Trap