Flemish Twist or Endless Loop ????

[TRAP]

We talk alot about restoring old bows and making all sorts of replacement parts for them from feather rests to strike plates to replacement tips and leather grips.

How about strings?  What kind of strings do you use on Vintage bows?  

I was recently given a endless loop jig and have been playing with building some EL strings.  They look pretty good on the old Bears.  I'll try to get some pics up soon.  

Trap

[ckruse]

Endless loop for me. I just think they look (and are) proper on the old Bear bows. CKruse

[PAPALAPIN]

I think is is all personal choice.  Fr me...endless loop.

I would think that longbow shooters may prefer flemish.  They are more rustic looking.  I also understand that flemish strings are adjustable, so it is better for adjusting string length without having to twist them shorter, making the string thicker and heavier.

The only flemish string I ever tried was one that came on a used bow I boutht.  I did not like it...but that's just me.

[BobT]

Hey Trap,

I use Flemish strings on mine because that is the only kind I have figured out how to make, and I just learned to do that last weekend. I don't really have any place to buy strings except mail order.

[Wade Phillips]

Endless Loop are the original strings on all the original Bear Kodiaks.

I wouldn't think of putting a Flemish string on an old Kodiak. Would be like putting T-Bird Hubcaps on 1963 Corvette. OK if you wanted to do it, but not close to being historically accurate.

Trap - Are you thinking of making some Authentic Replica 1959 Kodiak Strings, true to colors ???

I'm certain you will have buyers for them.

I make all of my own strings but have never been able to duplicate the 1959 Kodiak String Color exactly...

Always a little too light or little to dark. OK, Call me eccentric.

You could even package the stings in a replica of the original Bear String Package... (that might be stretching it a bit...)

 

[TRAP]

Wade, Nope not ever going to sell one.  Might give a few away or trade a few if I get them right.  Would you be kind enough to post a picture of a Bear 59 Kodiak string.  I dont even know what the true colors are supposed to be.  

I've been making a few with white or tan B50 and green or red serving.  

I bought a near mint 59 Grizzly once with what I'm pretty sure was the original string.  It was white with red serving.  

Trap

[Wade Phillips]

Trap - Probably don't have to tell you whose 59 Kodiak this original string is on... Best to go right to the source rather than leave any doubt about what the authentic colors are. This is exactly how I remember the 59 Strings and is just the same as the old strings on some of 59 Kodiaks that I have picked over the years... Sometimes, the actual string might be a little darker, but the serving is always a dark burgundy.

We won't mention the 6-line Strike Plate on a 1959 Kodiak...

         

In the catalog you will see the burgundy serving on white string.

Either would be considered correct.

Here is a photograph of white sting with burgundy serving like shown in the catalog, a bit dirty... The sting was use enough to be broken in, than but back in the package for a spare...

   

[turkey522]

Can somsone show me endless loop.Being fairly new to traditional archery I don't remember ever seeing one.

 Terry

[d. ward]

Cost or profit was or is the bottom line on endless loop strings because they were and still are cheap.I mean less expensive then a flemish.I did not mean cheap like cheap.
Whatever string you do like to use yourself.I would stay away from those no stretch strings(FF)on older model bows.
Myself I use flemish because I'am cheap to cheap to buy strings.bowdoc

[Wade Phillips]

Doc - If you have a bow like Fred's 59 with the cut down shelf, why not have a string like his too ???

Another type of string you probably want to stay away from are the metal strings that were sold during the original Kodiak era (not sold by Bear).

Terry - Got the photograph loaded above of the well wrinkled Endless Loop that was in the Bear String Package.

[vtmtnman]

I always used endless loop strings,until I finally built a jig and started making flemish strings.Endless loop strings to me are boring looking,where as I can put my own personal touches on my vintage bows with one of my own flemish strings.

[kurtbel5]

Hey Daryl got any pics of yours?

Wade, I reread your post,did the original strings have 2 tones (one color but not solid) as in the pics above? I would have thought that is age or a reaction with the packaging on a neutral color dacron.

[Wade Phillips]

Richard - What ever string trips your trigger is what you should use.

To you and many others the endless loop looks boring... Frankly, they are pretty boring looking, but I like my attention focused on the 1959 or 1950 Kodiak, rather then a fancy string.

To me the endless loop on a 1959 or 1960 Kodiak brings out the beauty of the bow, looks like it belongs there and looks authentic, and reminds me of those 1950s hunts.

For those who weren't there in the 1950s, it is understandable why they might have a completely different paradigm.

I've bought a few 1959 & 1960 Kodiaks with Flemish strings and always remove them. Usually put the Flemish strings on bows I sell.

I still have some longbows that I shot for awhile over 25 years ago, they have Flemish strings. I wouldn't think of putting an endless loop on them.

I wouldn't think of putting a endless loop on any of my 1930s and 1940s Bear Grumley's.

So I have plenty of both endless loop and Flemish.

But for my old Kodiaks, it's only the endless loop...

Kurt - I edited the text Burgundy/white to be burgundy serving and white string. Don't want anyone to get confused.

I'm sure the aging process differed from string to string depending on what it was exposed to over the past 50 years.

[vtmtnman]

Originally posted by Wade Phillips:
Richard - What ever string trips your trigger is what you should use.

To you and many others the endless loop looks boring... Frankly, they are pretty boring looking, but I like my attention focused on the 1959 or 1950 Kodiak, rather then a fancy string.

To me the endless loop on a 1959 or 1960 Kodiak brings out the beauty of the bow, looks like it belongs there and looks authentic, and reminds me of those 1950s hunts.

For those who weren't there in the 1950s, it is understandable why they might have a completely different paradigm.

I've bought a few 1959 & 1960 Kodiaks with Flemish strings and always remove them. Usually put the Flemish strings on bows I sell.

I still have some longbows that I shot for awhile over 25 years ago, they have Flemish strings. I wouldn't think of putting an endless loop on them.

I wouldn't think of putting a endless loop on any of my 1930s and 1940s Bear Grumley's.

So I have plenty of both endless loop and Flemish.

But for the old Kodiaks, it's only the endless loop..

Oh not trying to say anything bad about them at all.Just like the looks of the flemish better.That and I never have to buy any strings anymore.  

[Wade Phillips]

If you make your own endless loop, you don't have to buy any strings either.

Endless loop strings are pretty simple to make. If I can make them, anyone with two hands should be able to made endless loop strings too...

My best hunting pal of over 30 years, has made his own Flemish strings for years and has more old Bear bows with Flemish strings than anyone I have ever seen. Flemish strings trip his trigger, I understand perfectly where he is coming from.

He probably thinks I'm just an eccentric old fart who is never going to change my ways and put a Flemish string on an old Kodiak. He's probably right.

Richard - I own lots of Flemish strings. Here are some Flemish stings that are over 25 years old, they on a couple of my old Tim Meigs longbows. By today's standards, they are a little boring being single color. I don't shoot them so the srings will never change. The bottom bow is a circa 1941 Grumley Bush Bow still with an original Flemish Sting. Yes that bow is STRUNG !!!

     

[TRAP]

Thanks for the pics Wade, Now the quest for the right color string and serving    

I've been making Flemish twist strings for about 20 years and never really perfected the art like Jim Raine and other guys have.  My FT's are functional and thats about it.

I read somewhere once that old dried out serving loops can act kinda like a saw or a file on older paper micarta overlays and to avoid their use.  Something to think about before stringing your favorite collectible with an older string.

I never really thought much about endless loop strings untill I refinnished a 55 Kodiak and for some reason I just didnt think a flemish string looked quite right on that old classic.  I bought an endless loop from a guy on e8ay, installed a couple of foam brush buttons which Mike Shaw so graciously sent me, and hey I got hooked.

Not sure why endless loops are cheaper than Flemish strings.  Endless loops use more serving material and take quite a bit longer to make.  Probably has something to do with the old supply and demand economics theory.

Kurt, sorry no pics yet but I'll try to get some posted soon.

Trap

[Wade Phillips]

I've heard guys say FT is easier on the string grooves and overlays, but I've shot tens of thousands of arrows out of old Kodiaks and never had a problem. But for hunting, I only shoot bows that have the marcarta overlays replaced with fiberglass. That paper will give way at some point. Guys who take an old Kodiak with the original macarta overlays out on a two week hunting trip, should be lashed with the string,  regardless if it is a FT or endless loop.

A guy can build up the loops of the string with extra strands on an endless loop string as easy as on a FT, if guys are interested in doing that. I build up the loops with some extra strands before serving the ends.

The B-50 in that light tan color is pretty close to Fred's 59 string. I've used that a lot. Actually it is just a little dark. The light tan is neutral and doesn't take away from the bow. For me, white pulls the eye toward the string and away from the bow. I'd much rather have a great looking classic Kodiak with a neutral string than any bow with an eye catching sting... OK, now, remember, there are exceptions to every rule about Bear Bows, the Signature bow has a white, FT string, and was made in Gainseville bow, OMG 3 exceptions...

I have never found that dark burgundy serving so use the darkest red I can find and then lay the bow in the mud every chance I get until the string gets close to burgundy, LOL. Trust me, if the bow goes in the mud I'm already in it.

Years ago I looked into to special ordering some burgundy serving, and was told the minimum order was XX tens of thousands of feet, so that idea was abandoned.

Let me know if you find some burgundy that is close in color to Fred's 59, I'd like to buy a lifetime supply. Hopefully that is quite a bit.

[TRAP]

Have you thought of dyeing some serving Wade?  

Rit dye works wonders in the right combination.

This is fun, now a quest for the perfect "replica" string.  

Oops, gotta stay focused on other repro projects first.    

Trap

[Wade Phillips]

My experiences with dying leather grips sort of broke me of any additional experimentation with dyes. I found the rain just loosens up the colors in the leather and it bleeds.

Figured I might wind with burgundy fingers if dyed the serving...

Is Rit dye water proof?

Wait until we start on the other replica items for outfitting the authentic equipment for a 1959 hunt...

[TRAP]

If you "set" rit dye with vinegar and rinse it well before drying it shouldnt bleed any more.  

I'll play around with it soon.

Yeah, there's no end to those things that could be replicated for the 59 hunt.  

A bunch of us could head to the Little Delta Region in black Chuck Taylors, striped flannel pajamas, WWII Camo, Barsilino Hats, with 59 Kodiaks and a quiver full of white dipped arrows.

Trap