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Author Topic: Another question for you Bear gurus...  (Read 2792 times)

Offline d. ward

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2009, 12:14:00 PM »
yes I've seen several that were cut from the bleeder blades being forced in.Those are great bow quivers.bd

Offline Hud

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2009, 01:52:00 PM »
Wade, thanks for the information.

Hink, great picture. The bow looks like an older static recurve? Is it glass & wood and is the compass original? Can you tell me is the diameter of the compass, is it in an aluminum, brass or other base?

Thanks again, for the pics of the old scabbard quiver. The hood looks to be all leather, and much flatter without the foam insert. Did the broadheads fit loosely, or was there something to hold them in place?

Wade, smile when you say Swiss Cheese. Actually the condition looks pretty darn good considering it may have been made about 1944. (WWII products where scarce.)

Makes me want to start going to more garage and estate sales...

I would like to see more pics of the older bow quivers, does anyone have a collection and feel like starting a thread?
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Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2009, 01:57:00 PM »
Hud - Just check past threads, there are thousands of items posted from collections all over the world.

Just do a search for what every you want to see...
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Offline TRAP

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2009, 02:35:00 PM »
The Bear leathertops are very functional as they are but a few modifications make them even better.  

Here's some modifications to a tape on.

I used parts from Great Northern to make the quiver an easy on/easy off quiver.

 
 
 
   

I further modified this quiver by making it adjustable in length.  Once again I used Great Northern parts.  The added length really settles the arrows down and keeps them from flopping around when the bow is shot
 

I've also attempted to add a Spring arm to the top of my 4 arrows but have bnever been satisfied with the arrow angle.  I think Wade's method would work better.
 

Wade, since you've already been through the learning curve, which spring arm (short or long) works best on 60 inch 59 and 60 Kodiaks?

I prefer the bolt on/springarm combo and would gladly trade a tape on 4 arrow leathertop (modified or unmodified) for a spring arm if anyone is interested.

Trap
"If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" Gen. Eric Shinsheki

"If you laugh, and you think, and you cry, that's a full day, that's a heck of a day." Jim Valvano.

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2009, 03:45:00 PM »
Trap - Now just because I have modified the long and short arm quivers, sure doesn't mean that I have experienced a learning curve.    :scared:
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline JavelinaHink

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2009, 06:09:00 PM »
.....Hink...

   :archer:
A TRUE FRIEND ALWAYS THINKS YOU ARE A GOOD EGG EVEN IF YOU ARE SLIGHTLY CRACKED.

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2009, 08:56:00 PM »
Hink - That is exactly the insert problem that Fred solved by ripping the skin off that scabbard wire frame. Nice Photograph !!!

Trap - I believe this is what you want to compare... The long and the short of it...

1959 Kodiak on left with short upper spring arm & lower screw in bracket.
10.0" from center of screw hole to top edge of horizontal on back of upper limb.
3.0" from shelf to center of screw hole.

1960 Kodiak on right with long upper spring arm & lower screw in bracket.
12.0" from center of screw hole to top edge of horizontal on back of upper limb.  
3.4" from shelf to center of screw hole.

     

Screw hole on 1960 Kodiak is .4" lower from shelf.
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline TRAP

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2009, 10:32:00 PM »
Thanks for the pics Wade.  You arent worried about that upper spring arm being so far out on the fade out?  

I like the way the short arm fits on the 59 more I think.  

Trap
"If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" Gen. Eric Shinsheki

"If you laugh, and you think, and you cry, that's a full day, that's a heck of a day." Jim Valvano.

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2009, 11:29:00 PM »
Trap - I'm too old to be worried about these bows, I just shoot them.

I agree, I like the way the short arm fits on the 59 more.

Actaully the 60 fade out is a little longer than the 59. If you look in a mirror at the 60 with the long spring arm on it, and draw the bow as you are watching it in the mirror, the limb doesn't flex where the arm is, it is flexing up further.  

However, on the 1959, because the screw is .4" higher, and the fadeouts are shorter, if the long spring arm is used, the spring arm is too far up on the limb.

If I were choosing one quiver to use on both the 60" 59 and 60, it would be the like the one on the 59.

I suppose I should just throw that long spring arm in the trash tomorrow and make up another short arm...
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline TRAP

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2009, 11:40:00 PM »
If you're too old to worry about them, send a few of them to me and let me fret over them a while   :biglaugh:  

If you're like me, you won't likely throw anything like that away.  My wife would vouch for that.  She's amazed sometimes when she looks around in my shop.  My pat answer is "just put it back in there, I'll use it someday"

Trap
"If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" Gen. Eric Shinsheki

"If you laugh, and you think, and you cry, that's a full day, that's a heck of a day." Jim Valvano.

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2009, 11:47:00 PM »
I have almost as many quiver parts as strings, volume wise not number wise. I found that string tub the other day and will post a photograph of some of my strings. You will get a charge out it.

I just looked at your adjustable spring arm set up with the lower screw on bracket. I believe if you bend that adjustable spring arm bracket at similar angles to my short arm, you may find that it will work just fine.

Meant to ask you when you posted the photograph...

What do you have in the bow for a coin? An Indian Head Penny?
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline TRAP

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2009, 11:57:00 PM »
Yeah that's an 1859 indian head penny.  I believe 1859 was the first year.  

I may need to do some more bending, but I dont believe it's long enough to get me there.  I could easily bend it enough that it could be braized on a bolt-on though.

Trap
"If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" Gen. Eric Shinsheki

"If you laugh, and you think, and you cry, that's a full day, that's a heck of a day." Jim Valvano.

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2009, 12:57:00 AM »
Trap -

Was thinking you could just remove the spring arm bracket, and bend it to the shape of my short arm and just braze it to the wire frame of the quiver. And grind off the two little brazed on threaded pieces.

Is that what you have in mind? If so I believe it will work. If not, we'll find you a discarded arm that will work.

Why an Indian Head Penny?
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline TRAP

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2009, 01:09:00 AM »
It's a Holcomb and I thought it needed a coin at the time.  I also added a quiver bushing and reshaped the grip.  

It's what I had before I owned an original 59.  I still have it, but it doesnt get shot much anymore.  

Yeah, that's the modification I was referring too.  I think that will work.

Trap
"If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less" Gen. Eric Shinsheki

"If you laugh, and you think, and you cry, that's a full day, that's a heck of a day." Jim Valvano.

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2009, 01:24:00 AM »
Thought that penny looked a little low on the riser to be legitimate.

Yes, I think bending that bracket and brazing it will work great.

If you need any additional photographs or measurements let me know.
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline Hud

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2009, 01:42:00 AM »
There is some interesting "facts" about the legend and equipment on this website. You may have seen it already. But did you know it has a history on the bow quiver?

 http://www.fredbear-online.com/

Once you are there go to Frank's website, Or go directly to:

 http://frankscott.fredbear-online.com/

Near the bottom of Frank's website, click on The Reinvention of Archery. #4 covers a history of the bow quiver.  In summary, Fred first used a bow quiver in 1933.  The leather back or first BQ was introduced in 1947.  Earlier I said, Fred appeared in a picture taken in 1944 with this quiver and the 4-Arrow, or leather top was introduced in the 1950's; 1956 to be exact. There is much speculation about when things were introduced, but I think this lays it out nicely...although we know Fred used it much earlier. Did he have fun testing equipment, didn't he?  

THERE ARE PICTURES OF THE DIFFERENT MODELS OF BEAR BOW QUIVERS, AND DATES FOR YOU TO PONDER.
TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline Hud

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2009, 01:47:00 AM »
Jack Millet pointed out the earlier model converta system.  It can be seen at the same website  http://www.fredbear-online.com/

I think the one you are talking about may be on the Frank Scott website, under The Reinvention of Archery, #5 for the converta point system.
TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2009, 08:56:00 AM »
Hud - Regarding Jack's post of July 16, 2009 04:54 PM...  

I believe that Jack was referring to the stabilizer insert bushing in the back of the bow rather then the replaceable arrow points, when he said...

"The leather tops were early model quivers that were discontinued long before the converta systems were introduced. The converta systyems is part of what the bushing was used for."

Do you agree?
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline Hud

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2009, 12:31:00 PM »
Your right, I should have looked at the post before speaking. I have seen the converta system, and think I still have one but not the bow it was used with.

Does the information on the website, about the evolution of the bow quiver, coincide with your records?  It seems like Fred Bear had a few products that were put out for test driving, but were never released. The other thing is that people may have modified some of the products, like what is being discussed, and they never came from the factory.  Fifty years from now, they'll still be trying to figure out whether it was factory or not.

The leather top has always been a favorite, and nice ones are hard to come find.

Thanks for your help.
TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Another question for you Bear gurus...
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2009, 05:07:00 PM »
Hud – Hopefully we will have documented all of our quiver modifications so 50 years from now, any person capable of researching the then probably obsolete Internet, will be able to figure out how we spent our time modifying all of the quivers they can not find in original unaltered condition.

Do plan to devote a chapter to altered quivers, in a book about Fred Bear’s Hunting Quivers that hopefully will get finished up before I check out.

Yes, Frank Scott's "The Bow Quiver" article is nicely laid out and nicely written, but it is brief summary of Bear’s bow quivers and is not complete.

Collectors have discovered many other different models of Bear's Production model Scabbard and Leather Cap quivers in addition to the four shown in Frank's article. Plus many documents from the era exist that verify the legitimacy of additional quivers.  

There is no “speculation about when things were introduced” if the actual original documents from the era are cited. Specifying the exact year, month, day, title, and page number of original documents is the only way to establish verifiable historically accurate dates for each item.

If you note the only original reference document cited in the article is Fred’s Bow Quiver Patent, which is in the bottom half of the article and provides accurate dates for when the application was filed and when the patent was granted.

During the 1990s, I was very fortunate to have spent several days at the Bear Museum and even more fortunate to have spent many hours with Frank Scott talking about old time archery as well as discussing and handling items in the museum. There was no finer man than Frank, he was truly a wonderful person.

Keep in mind that Frank was an archery historian from the standpoint that he experienced living through the old days at Bear Archery and talked about his experiences as he remembered them. Frank was much different than those who are 20 years or more his junior, and must research the documents of the era for answers. Oftentimes, Frank told me things I’d never heard from others or read, and likewise many times I told him specific dates, events, products or models that he was not aware of. I asked Frank hundreds of questions, many he could answer, others remain unanswered to this day. There is still lots to learn for all of us…
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

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