A little help please on arrow spine/selection

[bigislandmark]

Aloha All,
First of all I want to thank everyone one for a warm welcome to the family-----Mahalo!

Right now I'm shooting a Great Plains SR bow; drawing 44 pounds at 26 inches,shafts are cut to 28 inches, with 125gr field points/broadheads. Currently I am shooting 1916 shafts but would like to try some carbons. I bought some Gold Tip Expedition Hunters 35/55,fleched them up with 5 inch feathers and mounted 125gr. field points. Shot them last night at the indoor range and they flew straight and true. "BUT" something  bothered me about shooting these carbons. I felt that it might be too light. I called Great Plains and they recommended that my overall weight should be over 400gr.  After doing the calculations, I figure that my arrow weight is only 359 grains---- Waay to light. I cracked a limb on an old Bear Magnum; the green one shooting carbons and I don't want to repeat that again. The memory is still painful.
  Wondered what Da Gang might suggest. Add carbon weight tubes or brass inserts?  Or try a different shaft? Also do the weight tubes and brass inserts affect arrow flight/spine? Besides dropping more? I would eventually like to build and shoot cedar but right now I feel that carbons will stand up to the abuse I put my arrows through. In other words I spend a great deal of time looking for them in the grass and lava rocks.

Mahalo, Mark

[macbow]

Hi, I'm currently shooting the 35/55's out of a 50 pound bow. One thing I've learned with carbon arrows is they like a lot of weight up front.

I use the brass inserts. To use these you have to buy the long tool to put them in. ($10)The brass inserts come in various weights.

You also have the choice of weight tubes but I've had poor luck with these.

You mentioned putting the arrows through some abuse, for my stump shooting carbons I add about 1 inch of aluminum shaft on the front over the carbon. something like a 2114 will just fit. Makes them very tough.
Ron

[bigislandmark]

Mahalo Ron, Thanks for the advise.

After going through my mess--- I mean archery stuff, I found some field points that I bought from Three Rivers awhile ago. Multiple points; two each in various weights. I am going down to the range tonight with my son and try  using da heavier heads.


Is FOC not as critical with Traditonal? Reason I ask is as you might have noticed, I am only shooting 44 pounds at 26 inches. I want as much  oomph transmitted to the game as possible. This was brought to my attention when I first took the bow on its maiden voyage. I was going on a goat hunt and had my bow tuned up to shoot three under. Problem was that my nock point was 13/16's above center. At the time of order, I requested the bow to be tillered three under. Got the arrows to shoot beautifully "BUT" da nock height bothered me. Night before the hunt, I couldn't leave well enough alone and got on the internet for advise.(You can see where this is going). After alot of reading, I dropped the nocking point down to 1/2 inches. Next day drove to the other side of the island; Kona to hunt goats. Long story short, I did manage to get within range of a large billy and shot it. Heard the thump of the arrow as it connected and watched it as it ran off with the heard. A friend was positioned  off to the side and as the heard passed him, he gut shot the last billy. The billy separated from the heard and trotted straight to his son;age 12. Son put  another arrow into the goat. Yep you guessed  it, it was the same goat. As we cleaned da goat, I found that my arrow barely entered the chest. Didn't even cut the lungs. I found out latter that my arrow was porpoising. On the bright side of that hunt, my friend, son, and I all claimed 1/3 of one billy ----me to mark it, Keith to slow it down and Justin to finnish it. So if anybody asks me I claim 100 percent success rate on that hunt for all three of us. I just leave out the manini (small) details!

Thanks for the advise on adding aluminum to the shaft. Never thought of that.

Thats why I enjoy reading stuff on this site. Never to old to learn something.

Mahalo,

        Mark

[breid]

I use rope.  I have the Gold Tip traditionals, full length, with 175 gr. heads at 700+- gr.

Different rope has different weights, the cheap braided nylon is lighter than the cotton.  I even loaded my aluminums with it.  1/4" should be good.

I use a cut paperclip, and 8# monofilament to get it in, or a straightened coat hanger.

[McDave]

The 3555 Gold Tips should work fine with your bow, but you may need to do a little tuning to get them to fly right.  I use the Gold Tip inserts and the screw on weights, which come in 20 grain and 50 grain sizes.  Adding weight to the back will stiffen the spine, and adding weight to the front will weaken the spine.  For your setup, you will mainly need weights on the front end, as the 3555 shaft will be too stiff for your bow with the 125 grain points alone.  If you need more weights to get the overall arrow weight up to where you want, then you can add weights to the front and back.  Just keep in mind that adding an equal amount of weight to the front and back will result in a stiffer arrow, so to keep the spine the same, you need to add somewhat more to the front than to the back.

Getting a 3555 tuning shaft is really useful.  It comes with an assortment of weights.  Black Widow sells them, and probably other places too.  When shooting the tuning shafts, I hold the inserts in place by wrapping them with the teflon tape you use to seal pipe fittings.

You may end up with a FOC that is a lot higher than you're used to or the recommended ranges given in books.  I've read a lot of discussion about this, but nobody seems to think that the high FOC is a problem with the Gold Tips.  I mean, if you tune for good arrow flight with bare shafts, you're going to have good arrow flight, period.  As long as the arrow is flying straight at the target, and not wobbling, you're going to get as good penetration as the speed and weight of the arrow dictate, regardless of where the weight is.

400 grains overall arrow weight should be about right for you under the general rule of 9-10 grains of arrow weight per pound of bow weight.  A grain scale is not that expensive, and is something you might want to consider getting.

[hunt it]

You can use the 100gr brass inserts for the gold tips you don't need ant tools for these inserts. you need the tool if you get the inserts plus the insert weights,no need to bother with these in my opinion. Get solid brass inserts from 3 Rivers and order some 200 and 250gr field points. You will be surprised how well these carbons will fly with all the extra weight up front. Forget FOC that's compound and long distance performance technology your shooting a  trad bow at targets under 30yrds. All that extra weight hits with authority and penetrates which is what your looking for.  I use 250gr and up to 385grs on the front of my goldtips.

[bigislandmark]

Thanks for all the great advise! More food for thought. Glad I asked and not just started ordering stuff. Although getting archery stuff in the mail is pretty cool too. Just not the bill that comes with it.

 I agree that shot placement and shot distance are very important when shooting trad. I used to shoot a compound and just stalked to 40--45 yards, lazered the animal in and shot it. After awhile I started losing interest in hunting. (Did I just say that outloud?) When I made the switch, my friends thought that I was nuts. I had forgotten that hunting is not just about the kill but the skill to close the distance on an animal and outwit it.

Aloha,

       Mark

[Stone Knife]

I put 50 gr brass inserts in my 35/55 gold tips. I also put some weed whacker string inside to bring them up to my hunting arrow weight of 525 gr.

[Yolla Bolly]

macbow---just curious---what problems did you find with the weight tubes?