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Author Topic: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?  (Read 1243 times)

Offline TimberlineX

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Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« on: August 06, 2009, 02:47:00 PM »
Can anyone positively identify these broadheads?

 

They're on a classy, old set of cedar arrows with self nocks and the owner/manufacturer(?)
name.

 

Offline Ron Roehrick

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 03:11:00 PM »
Bill, the top two look like they could be 1942 Bear Special Order Zwickeys, one a four blade the other a two blade. The bottom broadhead is a Ben Pearson skeleton ferrule with six bands on each side. If those are indeed Bear special order zwickeys they are very desiable to collectors. The Ben Pearson is a common head if its has 6 bands on each side.

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 04:19:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ron Roehrick:
Bill, the top two look like they could be 1942 Bear Special Order Zwickeys, one a four blade the other a two blade.
Ron - The 4- Blade Special Order Zwickey has the ferrule cut from the left side.

Bill's 4-Blade has the ferrule cut from the right side and is one of the original 4-Blade Zwickeys.

These heads are...

Zwickey 4-Blade 5/16, Sloped Shoulder, page Z-7-2 ABCC #1398.000

Zwickey 2-Blade 11/32, Sloped Shoulder, page Z-6-5 ABCC #1395.000 (# shown for Z-6-3)

Ben Pearson 6x6, 1942, page B-13-3 ABCC #0172.000

Bill, if you can post a straight on photo of the 4-blade it may show it to have a full length ferrule which would make it a very rare head indeed as the one shown on page Z-7-3 has the rounded ferrule.
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline Ron Roehrick

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 05:10:00 PM »
Thanks Wade its really hard to tell with the   photo at such an angle and I didnt notice the cut out on the right side.

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 05:29:00 PM »
Ron - It is surprising how many people do not realize the original sloped shoulder 4-blade Zwickeys have the ferrule cut out on the opposite side of the other Zwickeys.
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline TimberlineX

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 05:42:00 PM »
Per Wade's suggestion, I'll take some better photos and will post those here in the next day or so.

This sort of scenario represents one of the great things about collecting - finding something interesting and then working with other collectors and experts to figure out exactly what it is. The learning is maybe the best part.

Offline fatman

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2009, 06:18:00 PM »
my wife says I'm a "Treasure trove of worthless information...."

Maybe that's why I like hangin' around here....  :knothead:
"Better to have that thing and not need it, than to need it and not have it"
Woodrow F. Call

Commitment is like bacon & eggs; the chicken is involved, but the pig is committed....

Offline D.Sheppard

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 09:20:00 PM »
Vast and infinite wisdom and knowledge !
"We're just a bunch of part time amateur hunters giving chase to full time professional animals."

Offline bowhunterfrompast

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2009, 09:30:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TimberlineX:

This sort of scenario represents one of the great things about collecting - finding something interesting and then working with other collectors and experts to figure out exactly what it is. The learning is maybe the best part. [/QB]
I agree 100%. Collecting and the history of archery is fascinating.
Rick Wakeman
UBM Lifetime Member
American Broadhead Collectors Club

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 05:29:00 PM »
This photograph shows just a few of the many differences in some of the Zwickey broadheads, first produced 70 years ago...

Top Barbed Zwickey 11/32" ferrule. Left 4-Blade 11/32" Sloped Shoulder Zwickey with bleeder cut from right side of ferrule lamination.

To the right are two of Fred Bear's 1942 Special Order 4-Blade Zwickeys, one with the patent # and one without. Fred killed his 1945 World Record B&A Moose using this Special Order 4-Blade. The 4-Blade Delta was not sold until many years later. Note the Special Order heads have the bleeders cut from the left side of the ferrule, which is typical of all Zwickeys made after the head shown at left.

 
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline JavelinaHink

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2009, 06:26:00 PM »
Here are a couple of S.O.Z ?, the one on the left has no hole in the ferrule for pinning the head to the shaft.
Left                      
Left,Ferr. 1.82"-.395" ,Right head, 1.88"-.405"
Left_Lenght 2.45" ,Right 2.48"
Left-Blade .032"  ,Right .026"  
Left-146gr.       ,Right 132gr.
Caliper on narrowest with of the Ferr. Lamination-Left-.444", Right-.414"
Does anyone have any SOZ like the one on the left without ferrule hole.....Hink

   
A TRUE FRIEND ALWAYS THINKS YOU ARE A GOOD EGG EVEN IF YOU ARE SLIGHTLY CRACKED.

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2009, 07:39:00 PM »
Hink -

Your 2-Blade Special Order with no holes goes with the 4-Blade Special Order with no holes.

How would you characterize this unsharpened 2-Blade Round Nose Zwickey ???

 
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline JavelinaHink

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2009, 09:12:00 PM »
Wade,
Yep..over looked that,
What's the width of the 4-bld. Ferr. Lamination.
 

On the Rnd nose Zwickey my first guess would be without knowing the length of it, is that all the Zwickey stamped out blades looked like before  sharpening. Dies would last longer with a tip like that but none of my dies are made that way so I could be just rambling along here, what are your thoughts on it.
A TRUE FRIEND ALWAYS THINKS YOU ARE A GOOD EGG EVEN IF YOU ARE SLIGHTLY CRACKED.

Offline Wade Phillips

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2009, 01:01:00 AM »
Hink -

4-Blade Ferr Laminations are .426" to .428".

This is the only unsharpened old Zwickey I ever recall seeing, so have no knowledge of what Zwickeys from other years, made with other dies or altered dies, looked like.

Remember as dies wore, edges were chipped and broken, they were sharpened, repaired and altered, which resulted in some of the many different Zwickey ferrule variations that collectors recognize. The very same is true for the blade die, edges wore, were chipped and broken.

I believe that it is important to remember that both Cliff and Jack Zwickey were gifted toolmakers. As their ideas evolved, and they saw more efficient ways to make things, they had the ingenuity and talent re-work the steel to get as much life as possible out of a set of dies.

It is possible that the unsharpened blade shape changed too.

That nose may or may not have always been rounded like this one.
"Real Sportsmanship is Fair Play" - Art Young

"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." - Will Rogers

Offline JavelinaHink

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2009, 04:48:00 AM »
Wade
I wonder if the old dies are still around up there in Minn. that might help answer some questions.

The center head pictured,4-Bld you have. Is there a mark under the vent cutout were maybe the die had a broken pin for the hole, looks like a half circle.   Hink
A TRUE FRIEND ALWAYS THINKS YOU ARE A GOOD EGG EVEN IF YOU ARE SLIGHTLY CRACKED.

Offline JavelinaHink

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2009, 05:49:00 AM »
Wade

Do these match any Bear arrows you have, this is the arrow these SOZ are on.(dark yellow & black) Sorry for the darkness of the photo's.....Hink

   
A TRUE FRIEND ALWAYS THINKS YOU ARE A GOOD EGG EVEN IF YOU ARE SLIGHTLY CRACKED.

Offline TimberlineX

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2009, 03:38:00 PM »
This collecting tale gets BETTER…although it may be something that only long-time collectors who have been engaged in the activity of gathering old archery stuff for 20 or 30 years will be able to fully understand.

Special Note – Because the maximum number of photos per post is eight, I’ll finish this complete post in three parts.

This all began when Wade Phillips recently posted a photo of an unusual grooved self-nock arrow. Something about the photo kicked loose an old memory in the back of my head, and I began digging through dusty arrow boxes and looking closer at arrows in bowquivers affixed to display bows around our home.

What I initially discovered were three old arrows with very similar grooved self nocks, and I posted photos of those arrows on Wade’s thread. Strictly as an afterthought, I also included a hastily-shot photo of the broadheads on those three arrows. And almost instantly I began to get private messages from broadhead collectors fascinated by and interested in those broadheads.  What were they? Could two of them be among the very earliest of Zwickey’s, dating all the way back to the late 1930s?

More information and better photos of those broadheads were requested by many.

And that’s when things got even MORE INTERESTING.

I set about to better photograph the heads in question, and weigh and measure them for all concerned. But that old memory kept nagging me. Something was missing.

I returned to the dusty boxes and bows, and in due course discovered FOUR MORE arrows from the same set!

I told you that only a long-time collector with a lot of “stuff” could truly appreciate re-finding something amidst the clutter of things already gathered.

One of the newly RE-discovered arrows had no point. But the three others were glaringly equipped with what appears to be early Zwickey Barbed broadheads. You’ll recall that all of the arrows had the name of the owner or manufacturer (Walter N. Molzen of Newton, Kansas) ink-stamped on the shaft. It would appear that Mr. Molzen may have been quite an experimenter, trying a variety of then state-of-the-art broadheads on this particular set of arrows.

Here are four of the arrows from the set, with four different broadheads, all attached with some sort of black goop that apparently passed for glue in the late 1930s or early 1940s.

 

Wade has already tentatively identified the broadhead on the left as a 1942 Ben Pearson 6x6.

The second head from the left appears to be a Barbed Zwickey. I’m not sure on the date. One of the barbed heads was loose and I removed it from its shaft and weighed it - 114 grains on my digital grain scale. That big head measures 2-7/16 from the end of the ferrule to the head’s tip. The barbs extend another ¼ inches back beyond the ferrule. I measured its maximum cutting width at 1-1/8 inches.

Here’s a 360-degree photo tour of that broadhead:

 

 

 

 

 

Offline TimberlineX

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2009, 03:38:00 PM »
The third broadhead from the left appears to be a very early Four-Blade Zwickey with the bleeder cut from the RIGHT side of the ferrule. This unique broadheads weighs just 92 grains on my scale. It measures just a bit over 2-3/16 inches from the back of the ferrule to its tip. The maximum cutting width is approximately 15/16 of an inch.  

Here is a 360-degree photo look of that old 4-blade broadhead:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Offline TimberlineX

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2009, 03:39:00 PM »
The broadhead on the far right appears to be a very early Two-Blade Zwickey. This particular broadheads weighs 106 grains on my scale. It measures 2-6/16 inches from the back of the ferrule to its tip. The maximum cutting width is approximately 1 inch.
 
Here’s what that broadhead looks like from all sides:

 

 

 

 

 

So, what do we have here with these four broadheads? Is this sufficient information to positively identify all of these heads.

And if so, what are they, when were they made and how unusual or rare might they be? Help us all learn more about these fascinating heads.  

One more photo of the 4-and 2-blade Zwickeys:

 

Offline JavelinaHink

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Re: Can Anyone ID These Broadheads?
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2009, 04:04:00 PM »
Bill, Great find at home....its neat to find something when we've had it for years. sent you a PM too.....Hink...   :archer:
A TRUE FRIEND ALWAYS THINKS YOU ARE A GOOD EGG EVEN IF YOU ARE SLIGHTLY CRACKED.

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