Fred Bear and the Super K

[TimberlineX]

This is an interesting question – did Fred Bear kill anything with the 67½ Super Kodiak?

I must admit that in all the years of studying Fred Bear photos, I can’t recall ever seeing Fred holding that specific year/model Super Kodiak with a game animal. A number of promotional photos of Fred with a 67½ Super Kodiak do exist, including the cover shot on Fred’s “Archer’s Bible.” Here are a couple more.
 
The first is Fred with my old Utah friend Jim Pickering.

 

And here’s another of Fred shooting yet another all-black Super Kodiak, quite possibly the same one pictured on the "Archer's Bible" cover.  

 

I’ve seen a few other promotional-type photographs of Fred with a 67½ Super Kodiak, but nothing with a game animal. I wonder – and I’m just speculating here – if at the time the 67½ Super Kodiak was developed if Fred’s bowhunting wasn’t slowing down a bit. He would have been 65 years old that year, with much of his globe-trotting bowhunting behind him. It’s possible that he just didn’t have a bowhunt planned that year, or that he was already working on and hunting with take-down prototypes.

I do know for a fact that Fred did cut down the grip on at least one 67½ Super Kodiak to fit his personal shooting style, as was his custom with all of the Kodiaks he had personally hunted with since about 1961. I know that because that particular cut-down 67½ Super Kodiak hung, along with 3 or 4 of Fred’s other grip-modified Kodiaks, on the wall in my office when I worked at Bear Archery in the early 1990s. I pulled those bows out of a pile of dusty old relics that Frank Scott had relegated to a locked area in the back of the Bear warehouse. What's happened to those Fred Bear bows since then is anyone’s guess. I sure wish I had them. Maybe Bass Pro Shops now does.

That Super Kodiak, as I recall, looked a lot like the following Super Kodiak, other than Fred's bow was  left-handed. This right-hand model, it’s rumored, belongs to a Trad Gang Contributor with the initials G.Y., who must have a very sharp jackknife as the Bear Hi Compression material used in the 67½ Super Kodiaks is incrediably hard stuff.  

 

[johnnyrazorhead]

Bill- Interesting pics of Fred with his 67 1/2 Super K.I was thinking of a possible reason why there are no photos of Fred with game taken with a 67 1/2 Super K but then after reading your post further you said what I was thinking.Fred was developing his take-down during that same time and I think it was his preferred bow to use.Nothing else like it had ever been made before then and Fred was a smart businessman.I believe he knew it was a good idea.It was the bow he was seen with most right up until he died in 1988.Can't blame him for liking it,that's for sure.

[TimberlineX]

Has anyone ever compiled a list of the successful bowhunts Fred went on by year, and included the model bow he used on each of those hunts?

Mating that list with actual success photos clearly showing the bow used would then add substantially to the interest and education factors.

Wade, or someone, should do a Bear bow book, and add that sort of supplemental information.

[Cody Roiter]

[Wade Phillips]

TimberlineX - I have a partial draft of the book you suggest. Also have extensive notes on Fred's Hunts and equipment. You are correct, showing the hunting photograph and correctly identifying the bow used on each hunt is the ideal method.

Cody - Nice photograph. Can you read what the silk screen says on the upper limb? The silk screen is different than the 1967-1/2 Super Kodiak silk screens on that year's Super Kodiaks that I have.

[Cody Roiter]

Wade I tryed to blow the silk screen up but it's worst then in this photo.. Maybe I have the wrong bow.. If so I can remove the photo.. Thanks for pointing that out to me Wade,

Cody

[Wade Phillips]

Cody - I believe you have the correct photograph, I just want to know what is actually written on that bow... Please don't remove your photograph, it is great!

[Hud]

Fred used the protype TD in 1964 to take a Buffalo in Africa. The bow had a lever, similar to a O/U shotgun. There is a picture in Trad Gang of the patent. Because of the high expense, it was never put into production. I believe that is the first recorded hunt with the TD.

I think the Lion, taken in 1965 was with a 1966 kodiak. In one book it was 65#, but according to Fred's account of sitting in the blind, his 66# Kodiak was on the ground in front of him.  The Elephant was taken with a 64", 75# Kodiak. He may have used the 67 1/2 Kodiak in Africa.

[Hud]

Bear with a white period under, followed by Super, followed by Kodiak. It does not appear to have Glass Powered, under Bear as on my 68 Super Kodiak. The 68 also is cutout below the handle, similar to the sight window, and is below the cap and backstrap. Maybe it is a protype of the 67 1/2 or 68 that never reached production. The first picture looks like the fall hunt in Michigan with all the colors.

[Cody Roiter]

Wade, the more I look at that photo it looks to me it said's Bear Archery then under that said
Super Kodiak.. That I am sure of but it's not the first time I have been wrong so I am not a 100%..

Cody

[Grant Young]

Bill- you got me thinking about which bows accounted for what animals. I can't remember without reference material how complete Dick Lattimer's list of Mr. Bear's big game kills is (if it included dates) but I have a copy of Nebraskaland magazine featuring an article and pictures of his hunts over the years with Dick Mauch and later his wife Carol and several of the pictures show him using a phenolic Super K in '66 or '67. As I recall, a local who hunted with him-a game warden whose name escapes me at the moment- related details of the hunt and stated that Bear was "horn hunting" on that trip and missed what I took to be a trophy. The bow on that hunt appears to be a conventionally designed Super, still all black phenolic. I'll look this up this evening  when I get home and let you all know if it offers any insight. I recall reading Lattimer's list of Bear's kills and thinking that while it was impressive, it wasn't especially so by today's standards- except of course for the elephant, tiger, etc. and other virtually out of reach exotics. It lists eighteen whitetails for instance, and that number covered a lot of years. I'm sure there were years in which hunting was very limited due to health and business concerns as well as the time involved in pursuing the more spectacular trophies. That would be interesting research- I might give it a shot.    GY

[Grant Young]

I forgot to mention the great picture of Bear and Pickering (Mr. Perfect Score. The Super K in that picture looks to be the end design while the bow in Bill's second photo shows the "odd-ball" that Iwould bet is the same bow on the Archer's Bible cover. BTW, Bill, I don't have a knife that'll cut that stuff. I used a coping saw and sent it off to Don for cosmetic surgery.  GY

[Grant Young]

I just thought of an animal that may have fallen to this model and I bet some of you can remember the photo. It appeared on an Easton Hunting Arrow catalogue around 1980. There are several pictures including one of Larry Jones and an elk. The pictur is of Fred and a good Alaskan moose. The equipment listed was a Bear 65# Super Kodiak, date or model year not given, and a Bear/Easton .320 Magnum arrow. Too bad the bow isn't really featured in the photo.  GY

[TimberlineX]

Grant,

I gotta ask a bunch of questions about your grip-modified Super Kodiaks.

First, are you shooting off your knuckle like Fred or just close to it and off a rug rest?

Plus, how hard was the Hi-Compression material to cut, even with a  coping saw? And how much did you work the grip down before sending it off to ‘Ol Don for the final face lift? Did you happen to photograph the entire step-by-step transformation? Did Don complain a lot when he got the bow?

And most of all, how do the bows now shoot? I'm thinking about doing something similar to a 1966 and maybe a 1967½. My wife has threatened to kill me if I try it with my shooter F. B. Signature.  

By chance, is this the Fred Bear moose you’re referring to? This one was taken, I seem to recall, on a Bear Archery sales hunt in Alaska, and the bow Fred used was clearly a TD.

Bill Krenz
Colorado

 

[Grant Young]

Bill- I shoot off my knuckle, actually the arrow passes over my hand between the middle and primary knuckle. All my bows are like this and have been for over thirty years. Performance is fine- every bit as good as any shelf arrangement so long as the other components of the shot are executed properly; release, back tension, etc. The phenolic really isn't much tougher than the futurewood and both are difficult to work down. The first bow I did this to after I'd seen a rare picture of Mr. Bear's setup when I was a kid was a '65 Kodiak and I shaved it down with a four-in-hand rasp over a period of a few days- cut a little-shoot a little until I felt it should be about right. The phenolic and future wood prompted me to use a fine saw and carefully cut down the major portion and the rasp and sand the edges back flush. Normally, I cut the height down and narrow the remaining ledge to my preference before I send them to Don but the bow you posted a picture of was a different story. I had a '68 that I'd cut down and Don had refinished that delammed along the lower nosecap and I found this one on the auction site and snatched it up. It was rough-looked like it had spent its life behind a farmer's pickup seat- but it had 0 stress. I was sending Bowdoc something else at the time and I hurriedly hacked the shelf down to my preferred level and sent her off. I could hear (or feel) him cussing me all the way from Seattle. My main takedown is a Style I that not only has the shelf lowered and narrowed pretty much all by me and cleaned up by Don, but also is radically altered through the palm swell and the heel section of the grip to the point that it more closely resembles a Gainesville handle with a profile very similar to a '63 Kodiak, my favorite grip. Don did all of that and did a fantastic job. But there is no actual shelf left to speak of. All that started years ago when I was a kid emulating his archery hero and I really am not comfortable shooting any other type of arrangement though I more or less can. Owen Jeffery told me once that he preferred my arrangement over a shelf rug because my flesh was more like the elevated rest he preferred in that it gave or could flex a little as the arrow launched. I couldn't say whether that's the case or not. I do know that I never encouraged anyone to adopt the method or alter a bow in that way because once done, obviously, its done for good and all. Its just an idiosyncrasy on my part. I never even wanted my sons to adopt my method; I set their equipment up with either rug rests or elevated weatherest type arrangements. All seven of my hunting bows- the ones I actually use- are set up pretty much identically except for my styleII that has more shelf width than I really like because of the extreme "S" shape of the riser. What won't work very well is lowering the shelf a little bit and propping the index finger up across the front of the shelf- for some reason that causes erratic arrow flight and can actually hurt over time. At least that was my experience when I was a teenager and tried it last. I'm so wedded to this weirdness that I wouldn't hesitate a minute to cut down any bow I intended to shoot and hunt with regulary but that's a level of committment that someone would have to be as nuts as me to maintain,LOL. BTW- Don Ward is the ONLY person to date to whom I'd just send a bow to and never worry or wonder if he would get it right- he's seen and shot my bows and I couldn't get a better job done anywhere except possibly in Bear's custom shop of the 60s.
   In regard to the above photo, no, that isn't the picture I was referring to. The picture I alluded to was of Fred standing/leaning against a very impressive bull in the late sixties on a hunt also recorded by Bob Munger. I spoke to Wade last night and tried to date the easton catalogue that specified bow model (except for year) bow weight, and Easton arrow used. I believe it was '80 or '81 but I can't be sure. I know the picture was dated earlier than the catalogue because the caption listed Super Kodiak as the bow, 65# as the bow weight, and Bear/Easton Magnum .320 as the arrow. Metric Magnums were the then current Bear offering. The bow is completely unidentifiable in the picture as it is lying lengthwise on the back of the bull which is facing the camera so all you can tell is that it's a recurve bow. I've got a copy of Munger's book that I have loaned to someone so I can't scan or give a page reference at the moment but the bull in the Easton catalogue and Munger's book would thash the little fellow in the above photo and neve stop browsing. I apologise to the tradgangers that had to endure the length of this post but I couldn't answer the questions very well and be more brief.  GY

[Grant Young]

Bill- one other thing to watch on the 67 1/2 Super- go slowly and cautiously on the belly side of the shelf ledge when or if you cut it back. The process can cause minor cracking lengthwise at the top of the throat directly under the point where the sight window and the shelf ledge meet. It usually isn't a real problem and can be stopped with a little india ink and loc-tite. Most of the old phenolics have spider web like stress fracture in the grip and palm swell areas any way and this is not really any worse than that. Bowdaddy can make it all go away, LOL. Before you do this, I'll send you one of mine to shoot if you like and you can see for yourself before making the move on one of your personal beauties. Serious offer, let me know.  GY

[d. ward]

Grant I gotta ask a bunch of questions about your grip modified Super Kodiaks ????? how's about these Bill.They just seen to shoot better for me too.And a soon to be modified Super Kodiak I picked up last weekend.I love that bow.bd      

[Grant Young]

Not bad for an old hippy Bowdaddy, LOL. This kind of reminds me of our conversation yesterday- the bows just feel different and as your friend suggested, actually shoot or balance a little differently as well, dontcha think? BTW- those red tips were fubarred in the lower limb. Shucks,   Grant

[jcar315]

Nice bunch of SK's there BD!

[TimberlineX]

Don,

I’ve longed whittled away at bow grips, trying to get them to feel just right for me. Usually, that’s meant cutting, rasping and sanding them so that my bowhand moved up and closer to the arrow. The method you and Grant are using to cut down through the factory shelf to accomplish the same thing is fascinating, and actually seems closer to what Fred Bear did with his bows. Your fairly recent thread on the step-by-step process involved in cutting down a 1964 Kodiak’s grip is a gem. I’ve printed off that entire thread and filed it away for reference. Good stuff.

I must admit that I’m not quite sure that I’m ready to cut the shelf down on my shooter bows so much that I shoot directly off of my knuckle or finger like Fred or Grant.  I’d need to try that first. But I do like to get things down to the point where a minimum amount of arrow shelf remains, as appears to be the case with your green-stripe TD. That amount of careful butchery looks good to me.

Somewhere I’ve got a few photos of Fred’s cut-down bow grips and his shooting style, and I guess I should dig those out and share them. In the mean time, I’m encouraged by your grip modifications to know that I’m not completely nuts to chop up old bows, modifying their grips to better suit me (although I suppose the other way to look at this is that I’m just as nuts as you two). Cutting up old classic bows is not for everyone, but it works for me on those bows I plan to seriously shoot. And from the looks of your photos, you’re even bolder and certainly much better at it than me.

Now if we could just thin the shelf on a 1959/1960 appreciably to achieve more centershot, we’d be styling!

Bill Krenz
Colorado