Fred Bear and the Super K

[Grant Young]

My name is Grant, LOL. Thanks to Dan,err, Don, my bows haven't suffered too badly from my compulsion. Frankly, before I became aware of and met Bowdoc my alterations were pretty crude, especially in comparison with the great job he's done on them since. I'm not a collector in the sense that many on this site are. I rarely buy or even want to own bows that I don't intend to shoot and my field of interest so far as that goes is sort of narrow. I enjoy looking at your bows or Don's or Wade's as much as I would if I owned them myself. I only get excited about a few models from specific years because those particular bows shoot well for me and appeal to me aesthetically. I don't feel as though my personal bows are worth less because of the modifications (some collectors do), on the contrary, they are worth far more to me like this than they ever were in the original form. My heirs can figure out how to deal with that. BTW- Don isn't opposed to shaving a little sight window meat out of a 1960, are you Bowdoc, LOL?
Grant

[d. ward]

I seen one of what is or was one of Fred's personal bows(1959 Kodiak)and the bow had almost no shelf at all.It was a very tiny piece of shelf left on the bow that was under the web of Fred's hand.
OK so being a nut case when it comes to bows myself.I happen to have a 40 + pound(maybe 47 as I recall) 1959 Kodiak at home and I figured what the heck I went home a cut my 1959 Kodiak to be a somewhat of a very good match to Fred's personal shooter.The next day the finished I used to repair where I had been cutting filing and sanding was dry.I took the bow out in my yard for a little test shooting making note the shelf was well below the web of my hand as well but I was amped up like a kid with a new toy.
The first arrow struck the bullseye deadnuts at 20 yards no joke a bullseye.It was shooting right on the money and now I was even more amped up.
I thought wow there must be something to this modifcation and I was more the pleased with the way the bow shot it was great.I was going to go home and cut all my personal bows so the shelf was cut off so I could be like old freddie.
However Bill did I forget to mention by the time I dug cut but no filing this time with a pocket knife the pieces of a unglued feather that got just burried into the web of my hand ? holy smokes I never did that to a bow again and actually sold that 59 as soon as I could.Now I lieve enough shelf its just above the web of my hand.Good griff man the friggen feather implant hurt like a SOB.bd

[TimberlineX]

Don and GRANT – I’ve wondered about that feather-imbedding thing!

I once stuck my finger up with a low-poundage 1957 Kodiak just to try the arrangement of arrow-off-finger. Gotta be like Fred.
 
Never did that again! Hurt like the dickens! I was shooting a MicroFlite shaft and between the impact of the feather’s quill and the abrasion from the shaft, it felt like it set my finger on fire. Fred’s finger must have had a callous on it like the sole of an African bushman’s foot. Grant, how do you manage that? You made of fireproof iron?

Bill

[shick]

Grant, I have an Easton catalog with the pictures you mention;  It is has a copyright of '76.  Same pictures are used on the '81 Easton Chart also.  Doesn't date the bow but it's a start.  Your bows are looking fine..............Shick

[Trooper]

Man, this topic sure has taken a positive turn.  Grant, Bowdoc, TimberlineX, Shick; you guys are a wealth of info.  I'm soaking up everything you say.  Thanks for sharing; this is great stuff!!
       Murray

[Grant Young]

Aw shucks, Murray, thanks. Bill, that finger up stuff hurts like h***. Too late now but, DON'T DO IT,LOL. I have hand's like baby. Actually, there is a slick callous that is really just an eraser sized slick spot just in front of the big knuckle at the base of my index finger but it is very slight and not at all thick. I build my own arrows, burn the fletch, and watch out for quill lift. Believe me, if it hurt I'd have scrapped it. It just took me a little while to get it figured out. Shick- thanks for the compliments on my old beaters. Any and all credit goes to Bowdoc. I'm a little surprised at the interest they have generated- over the years most folks just wrote it off as weird. Anyhow, the next keeper I find will get pictures taken of the process- I'll record what I do and then Bowdoc can show everyone how to make it look alright. If we can get him to do it, that is- he's keeps his secrets pretty close to the chest,LOL. Thanks for finding that photo- shame it doesn't show the bow more clearly.         Grant

[TimberlineX]

Grant,

NOW you tell me!

Bill

[fatman]

shoot, Bill, that sounds like a good excuse to go Bear Huntin' in Quebec.....        

 

[Grant Young]

Good idea Fatman. Something about Quebec just sharpens a guy up, doesn't it?       Grant

[Hud]

Grant, I have been interested in doing this with my bow, because I am well accustom to shooting a longbow with a narrow rest. It is easier to point when the arrow is closer to the index finger and I think it would be easier to two different bows if the arrow is closer to the hand.

There is a picture of Fred's TD on the cover of TB and it appears to have a shelf that is maybe 1/4 wide without a rest. Do you know if his arrow touched the rest? Does your's touch the shelf? You explaination was great, I just wanted to clarify the point.  How wide is your shelf? Would you be able to post a picture from the belly side? Thanks for the help.

[Grant Young]

Hud- The bow points a little better for me, maybe, but mainly my personal method is about confidence whether or not its justified. Old habits die hard. I'm sure at some point long ago I was convinced or claimed to be convinced that the arrow on my hand was more accurate than it would be at some point above it but as I've gotten older I have begun to suspect that it doesn't make much difference at all as long as the shooter has adjusted him or herself to the arrangement. It does "feel" different though and that is awfully important to me. I recently contacted Moose (Milan) who owns Fred's old takedown that was on the cover of TBM and got the dimensions from him for the sake of curiosity. This bow has a little more shelf on it than the bows from Mr. Bear's most productive hunting years but not much. The remaining ledge on that bow is 2 1/16" long, front to back, and 1/2 " wide. Its 3/4 to 1 " lower than the first production models. My personal bows have shelves slightly narrower and are otherwise the same. I'll post some pictures of my setup or better yet PM them to you. I'd point out that this isn't a recommendation for my set up- its not better in anyway I can determine, its just a little different and odd these days. It does work though. I'll take those photos this weekend and send them to you.           Grant

[Hud]

Grant, thanks for your quick reply. The measurements are interesting. I expected smaller. I think it is very much a custom feature because of the differences in hand size, grip, etc. Confidence is key, and we need to be comfortable with our setup. Considering that Fred shot this bow for so many years, I think he would tell you he liked it that way.

The picture of Fred shooting straight at you, in this thread, looks like the arrow is on the shelf and not on the finger, as I had thought.

It looks to me, the shelf is also 3/4" above the center of the throat. Measuring perpendicular to the string to the throat and then up to the rest. Do you think that is about right?

Looking forward to some more pictures when you have time.

[Hud]

Also, forgot to ask you to comment further on the possibility of cracks developing. It sounds like you found this to be problem? Would it likely occur in the older Type 1, newer laminated handles, wood or phenolic handles in 68-69 S.K? Do you think it affected the strength in the handle?

[Grant Young]

Hud- In my experience I only had a few small cracks in phenolic risers- never the futurewood as used in the T/Ds or later Super Ks. I have managed to stop them from spreading by using the method Bowdoc taught me. Loc-tite, ink and a lite rubbing with real fine steel wool. My type I has a shelf ledge about 5/16" wide at the widest part. I don't know how Mr. Bear decided when it was "right"- in my case I just take them down 'til it feels good and stop. There are small variations between all my bows but they are all the same for all intents and purposes. You can also get a good look at some of Bear's bows on an earlier thread. Search this forum for Fred Bears Bow and you'll see some great pictures from Wade Phillips. The arrow you mentioned in the photo is on his finger, I promise.                         Grant

[The Great Jashu]

Back to the start of this. In the 75 catalog, on the page the Super K is on, Fred says he used the Super K to kill the Polar Bear on his third trip up there. I was blundering through my CD catalog and came across this. So, that being printed in the catatlog... I would think it is true. Check it out.

[TimberlineX]

The Great Jashu,

Think of it this way - let's say my favorite car is the Corvette. I just like Corvette's. Doesn't matter which year or model of Corvette. I like them all from the 1968 Corvette Stingray right up to today's super models. If asked, I'd simply say that the Corvette is my car.

That's the way Fred was with the Kodiak LINE of bows, from 1950 right up through the the very late 1960s when he switched primarily to a TD for his hunting. Sometimes he hunted with particular year/model Kodiak for two years, but most often he hunted with the latest, newest Kodiak model every year.

During that time period (1950 to about 1969), when asked about which bow he prefereed or which was "his" bow, he would simply refer to the Kodiaks. "My bow is the Bear Kodiak," he'd say. And for him that meant all of the Kodiaks, but especially the latest, greatest model. That phrasing carried itself into Bear's advertising for decades. My favorite car is the Corvette. Fred Bear's bow was the Kodiak.

By the way, there are plenty of photos of the white-limbed bows that Fred used for his polar bear hunts. None were technically SUPER Kodiaks because the hunts predated the introduction of the actual Super Kodiak model in mid-1967. The most famous of those photos clearly shows the 1965/66 Kodiak (second bow down from the top) that Fred used on his last polar bear hunt.

I hope this helps.

 

[Craig/FL]

This has got to be one of the most interesting threads I've ever read and the pics are great.

[The Great Jashu]

Thanks, I wondered if that is what it meant after seeing the picture. So, the bow he used was most likely a 66 KODIAK with white limbs.

[Wade Phillips]

Jashu - Fred's 1966 Kodiak that he used to take the Polar Bear, second from top in Bill's photograph above, has the glass on the back painted white.

If you look close at the original color poster, you can see the irregular paint line below the tip of the horn on the lower limb. There are also other spots along the glass where it is clearly visible that the paint line is irregular.

On the film of the hunt you can see the belly glass is still its original dark color.

 

[Steve O]

I just LOVE this place!  Where else can you get this kind of stuff