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Author Topic: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)  (Read 1100 times)

Offline SlowBowke

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Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« on: March 05, 2011, 06:45:00 AM »
The "fifty's style" recurves made a comeback some time ago and several bowyers make some nice ones.

Dumbed into this one and little to no info on it except I noticed the "woven" glass and the wound leather grip was common on a few about then too, and some years later.

I'm sure there were other mfgs using the woven glass, other than Bear, then but the combo of the glass, the grip and the over all shape of the bow seemed ( to guys like me without much knowledge) to point at an early 50's something or other.

Anyone recognize the grip style with the weight written on the riser of such a bow with such glass...........even a guess?

Thought maybe the glass and grip with red/white/blue edges might spark a memory or two.

More later when in my hand and looked over.
Just thought it too neat to pass up for the price so not horribly important but curious.

MIGHT blow up in my face LOL.

Kinda thought Ben Pearson at first......but looks more Black Hawk style in the grip but no info on even if Blackhawk bows from the Cravotta's were ever around that early.

God Bless
Steve

     

     

     
"Beauty is in the eye of the BOWholder" God Bless!!

Offline d. ward

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2011, 11:28:00 AM »
looks like toxhorn glass on the back aka cross weave might be a Stallion ? bd

Offline SlowBowke

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2011, 02:01:00 PM »
Thanks, Doc......Ill take several photos of it when it arrives if I find any tell tale markings.

You'd know far more than me.....one to compare to later on though. Might be tough to find a Stallion that old. 60s looked NOTHING like this lol

God Bless
"Beauty is in the eye of the BOWholder" God Bless!!

Offline Chuck_Delsandro

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2011, 12:19:00 PM »
Cool bow   :thumbsup:  
Chuck
" It's not the breath you take, it's the moments that take your breath away"

Offline SlowBowke

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 12:52:00 PM »
Help with SOME kind of THIN leather or ? for strike plate and rest......or just forget it and shoot?
Arghhh. lol

Seems to be about 62 inch AMO, VERY tiny grip, less than an inch thick, maybe 1.5 deep and IS definately around 55lbs but no string yet.

More later but this has me stumped.

Just hoping it don't turn into a "loctite repair" endeavor.   :scared:  

 
"Beauty is in the eye of the BOWholder" God Bless!!

Offline SlowBowke

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2011, 01:05:00 PM »
Appears to be the toxhorn, but term/materal was news to me, Doc

Interesting that it's on the back? Most references Im finding on toxhorn was belly material for compression capacities?

Fiberglass belly, two layer wood (maple Id say) limb construction between the two, the belly one half again in thickness or close.

LIGHT? oh my word...weighs zilch

Just investigating shooting this old beastie and what I can find out about some no name whichamajjiger bow.......that hopefully would like to go back to the woods.

Appreciate any and all help for a new old bow lover.

kinda

God bless
"Beauty is in the eye of the BOWholder" God Bless!!

Offline portugeejn

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2011, 11:01:00 AM »
Hi Steve,

FWIW, I have a 1950's Ben Pearson longbow that has woven glass similar to yours (looks the same except my bow it green, and has it on the back and belly).

Sent you a PM.

RonP

Offline SlowBowke

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2011, 11:32:00 AM »
Replied......just FWIW....this dont blow.....the plastic on the top and bottom of the leather grip is GOING.....arghh.

Hoping to make it a deer whacker for here in IN this fall!

The other bow I posted about....deal fell through but probably a good thing. Fade out cracks and the seller had the decency when he saw that to send my money back.

Another I traded for.......twisted limb beyond what I feel is repairable.

One longbow deal, on the way now.......about afraid to open it when it comes. LOL

Such fun, such HEADACHES........and admitting to such ignorance on OLD bows is disconcerting.

thanks for all the help guys. Sorry to take time off from "bears".....someday a 59 K or KS will fly my way.

Till then, and even then......these old "no clue what they are, 35 dollars specials" are a KICK!

God Bless
"Beauty is in the eye of the BOWholder" God Bless!!

Offline SlowBowke

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2011, 09:04:00 AM »
Nothing special, as expected.

What I've found is that Al Reader had something also with a "OUTDOOR SPORTS MFG CO" sticker listed for 1945. "Maker Unknown". Yeah, I know, I forgot to add that earlier after I got it. Sorry.

Ive found a couple other bows with similar stickers. Three longbows with clear, large stickers saying the same. All were children's longbows of very light weight. The sticker on mine is quite small, long and narrow, and paper based.

One "Impala" recurve also found with the same clear, large sticker. This was the only one without the leather grip and obviously a later model with full blown "pistol" type grip and arrow shelf.

Oddly, the one I have is the only one over 25lbs I've yet to find.

The tell tale red/white/blue Plastic grip end wraps on the wrapped leather grip seem consistant on the earlier models. I find this odd but maybe not? Plastic?

Just an old "thumper" that so far, is shooting just fine, quite impressively, actually. My 62 year old, life long trad hunting buddy and best friend, shooter of 42-47lbs since "who tied the pup" as he says, shot it and frowned.......

"HOW COME THIS DON"T FEEL LIKE 55LBS???!!!! That shoots NICE!"

The only string he had "close" put the brace height at 7.25 inches, with a draw weight at that brace height of 57lbs @28. Belly measured n to n it's exactly 61 inches.

For some reason I expect the "perfect" brace height to be close to 6.5....not sure why. Just something in my memory saying "knock, knock, knock......hello Dummy".

For me, it has it's own appeal and is obviously from somewhere around my birth year (but limb design seems to point to the later 50s to me) so I feel it is worthy of a hunt or two this fall, God willing.

ODDS ARE........the deer will succumb to arrows from it..........if I do my part LOL.               ;)             On the back of the site window (per se) it says "FAWN HUNTING" and why the seller thought it was a "vintage children's bow". Somehow the "55#@28" boldly written on it meant nothing to them. hmmm

Just hoping that isn't a forecast/prediction and just a name! ROFL It is under the finish so doesn't appear to be added. At least it don't say BAMBI hunting or something. Walt Disney would have had a stroke since this came out within 15yrs (or so) of the original movie.

This is "politically incorrect" enough, but somehow adds character to an old style recurve hunter.

It is simply an old bow from way back when, probably sold for 5 bucks new. Cost me a bit more than that but not much so for fun and games, well worth the cost.

Add a couple thick layers of leather under yet another grip for some kind of easier (sorry) used shelf and I'm good to go.

Plus........if I whack much of anything with it and a Lafonds head on a woodie or similar arrow set up......my 800 dollar mathew's shooting nephew will go insane. His arrows and heads cost more than this bow did..........each!

Probably raise a few eyebrows at the check station as well.

               :goldtooth:              

Thanks all for the help.
God Bless
Steve
"Beauty is in the eye of the BOWholder" God Bless!!

Offline SlowBowke

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2011, 09:28:00 AM »
PS.......just bought a double shelf B. Pearson Cougar, leather grip......9.99.

NEW PROJECT to add. Another from our past to return to the woods....where they were intended to go.

Lordy ain't this fun?? (and safer for me.....mine blow up..I wont cry.....long)


Tough for me to recognize early 50s arrows, unless they appear to be original AND complete with such heads on em but I look. I make my own but such create an interest.

Got a set of tonkin cane shafts to play with, just cause I "aint done that yet".....should be a hoot with them out of these old arra' flingers!

hehe
"Beauty is in the eye of the BOWholder" God Bless!!

Offline Liquid Amber

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2011, 08:54:00 PM »
Maybe I can clear up some stuff about W. L. Miller's facings and backings.

Toxglass is a woven fiberglass backing.

Toxwood is a plastic impregnated wood used for both backing and facing.

Toxhorn is a high pressure phenolic type plastic with a cellulose filler used for facing.

All were developed by the inventor W.l. Miller, a chemist and physicist working with plastics in a laboratory for many years as well as flight shooter.  He held a patent on plastic faced bows since 1943.  The various aldehyde plastic above were protected by this patent but abused by some in the archery community.  Miller reminded folks of this in the September 1953 "Archery."

Ultrabac is a woven glass backing and glassface a parallel glass fiber developed by Eicholtz.

Bear backing and facing through 1954 was parallel glass bonded to thin wood.

Tuff-bac is a woven fiberglass and cellulose fiber sold by Indianhead Archery.

Offline SlowBowke

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2011, 11:09:00 PM »
All great info, Thank You!
"Beauty is in the eye of the BOWholder" God Bless!!

Offline damascusdave

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2011, 08:55:00 AM »
Is it just me or are we eventually going to know everything about everything if we keep at this?

DDave
I set out a while ago to reduce my herd of 40 bows...And I am finally down to 42

Offline damascusdave

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2011, 09:05:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlowBowke:
PS.......just bought a double shelf B. Pearson Cougar, leather grip......9.99.

NEW PROJECT to add. Another from our past to return to the woods....where they were intended to go.

Lordy ain't this fun?? (and safer for me.....mine blow up..I wont cry.....long)


Tough for me to recognize early 50s arrows, unless they appear to be original AND complete with such heads on em but I look. I make my own but such create an interest.

Got a set of tonkin cane shafts to play with, just cause I "aint done that yet".....should be a hoot with them out of these old arra' flingers!

hehe
What the heck you needin a double shelf bow for, Steve? Nobody in their right mind (or is it left mind) shoots right and left handed.  And a Cougar is just a glorified kids bow that you should be embarassed to own. I will be kind and trade you a leather grip off a 59 Kodiak for it, so you can have a start on yer Kodiak.   :thumbsup:

DDave
I set out a while ago to reduce my herd of 40 bows...And I am finally down to 42

Offline damascusdave

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2011, 09:07:00 AM »
Hey, bowdoc, gonna be needin a new leather grip for my 59 Kodiak.

DDave
I set out a while ago to reduce my herd of 40 bows...And I am finally down to 42

Offline SlowBowke

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2011, 09:17:00 AM »
LOL......was just too interesting to pass up.

Maybe I can learn to shoot left too.......then the deer won't "know" WHICH SIDE they can sneak up on me..safely.

Some days it don't make much difference anyway, but a thought LOL.


God Bless
"Beauty is in the eye of the BOWholder" God Bless!!

Offline damascusdave

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2011, 09:17:00 AM »
Okay Steve, that seemingly innocent question you asked about the 1959 to 61 Bears got this whole episode started and will likely have cost me over 2 grand by the time it plays out.

So you should just give me that useless old BP bow.   :saywhat:  

DDave
I set out a while ago to reduce my herd of 40 bows...And I am finally down to 42

Offline d. ward

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2011, 09:21:00 AM »
I love this chit I really do.I look forward to getting up every morning and reading about old bows.....you gotta love it ya just gotta...
hey Dave I have to make the run to China town to get stocked up on leather for my shop.Hopefuly this week I can get loss long enough to get er done.If you remind me this week.I'd be more then happy to get you fixed up with a new grip.And you may need to post your reminder on this thread.As my email and pm's took a dump on me again....bd

Offline damascusdave

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2011, 09:21:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlowBowke:
LOL......was just too interesting to pass up.

Maybe I can learn to shoot left too.......then the deer won't "know" WHICH SIDE they can sneak up on me..safely.

Some days it don't make much difference anyway, but a thougt LOL.


God Bless
So now I gotta teach ya how to shoot left handed, well that is just great.

Okay so first you gotta put your glove on yer left hand and grip the bow in yer right hand...   :laughing:

DDave
I set out a while ago to reduce my herd of 40 bows...And I am finally down to 42

Offline damascusdave

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Re: Any educated guesses? (added photo comparison)
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2011, 09:41:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by the real bowdoc:
I love this chit I really do.I look forward to getting up every morning and reading about old bows.....you gotta love it ya just gotta...
hey Dave I have to make the run to China town to get stocked up on leather for my shop.Hopefuly this week I can get loss long enough to get er done.If you remind me this week.I'd be more then happy to get you fixed up with a new grip.And you may need to post your reminder on this thread.As my email and pm's took a dump on me again....bd
Nah,the greedy fellow decided he wants to keep his new toy and learn to shoot both ways so he can shoot a deer coming in on either side of a ground blind, which I submitted a Canadian  patent application for just last week when I got my dual shelf longbow blank.

If you join the Alberta Traditional Bowhunters Association (which oddly enough I am now the membership chair of) you can get some nice discounts from Tandy leather (who just happen to have an outlet in your neck of the woods).

You pop on up to our Heritage Classic Jamboree as our guest speaker, you get more work than you can handle in the next five years and you get paid in Canadian dollars (or bear hunts for real bears, not that lil gaffer ya shot in French Canada last fall).

I was gonna send the Twins to you for a decision on redoing them anyway so I will pay yer travel costs and you can stay at my place.

You want I can even lend you an old Bear bow to shoot.   :archer2:

DDave
I set out a while ago to reduce my herd of 40 bows...And I am finally down to 42

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