BH Prefix 1960 Kodiaks

[Wade Phillips]

ahandle70 -

With a 29-1/2" draw, you are wise not to shoot that 56" Kodiak. Percentage wise, I've seen more of the 56" Kodiaks that were broken than any other length. I am convinced that the breakages and separations were mostly due to being drawn over 26".

It is good for you to stick to the 60" bows and longer.

I don't remember the the really nice 59' that was hanging in a store window for 15 bucks, but then I don't rmember what I had for lunch today either...

Those 65 and 66 Kodiaks are way to heavy for me to haul around all day. Mine just sit on the pegs and collect dust.

[damascusdave]

Come on people, one more and that will be ten on the first day (if we do not count Jack's 1959).

DDave

[damascusdave]

Originally posted by Wade Phillips:
ahandle70 -

With a 29-1/2" draw, you are wise not to shoot that 56" Kodiak. Percentage wise, I've seen more of the 56" Kodiaks that were broken than any other length. I am convinced that the breakages and separations were mostly due to being drawn over 26".

It is good for you to stick to the 60" bows and longer.

I don't remember the the really nice 59' that was hanging in a store window for 15 bucks, but then I don't rmember what I had for lunch today either...

Those 65 and 66 Kodiaks are way to heavy for me to haul around all day. Mine just sit on the pegs and collect dust.

So the good news is you probably at least ate lunch.

As for those 65 and 66 bows I have already decided to live out my hunting days with a bow that is 50 years old at the time so I will be needing one of each in 2015 and 2016. We all know that a coating of dust greatly reduces the value.

DDave

[ahandle70]

Wade, you made a big impact me.  The first time I met you was in Plattsmouth.  You had a blue Chevy truck with some Bear bows in the box.  You let me handle an original Grumley that you had brought.  I knew right then that I would have many sleepless nights dreamin' about Bear recurves.  I hope you remembered to eat lunch today!

[Wade Phillips]

Hey, if you talk to my doctor he would probably say that I should skip lunch for the rest of this month. Unfortunately, I'll have to face him the first week of next month and listen him...

That blue truck was my favorite until my pal hit a black Angus cow with it going 65 miles an hour and totaled it. Fortunately, nobody was hurt except the cow, who expired.

Grumleys, my favorite 1930s and 1940s bows. They are the best from that era. You should have been at the NTA Banquet two weeks ago in Fremont, we had 10 cases of Grumleys there all lined up in the Fremont Auditorium.  They are true works of art. I love them.

[Bjorn]

This made me go to the rack too.............I found:
1959 Kodiaks
 AA 034 56" PH SW
BA 260 60" MSW
BorD A 589 64" MSW
all three are black ink
and a
1960 56" Kodiak
AA 735
I have other 1959's and 1960's but did not look at those.

[damascusdave]

I love the way you guys just casually mention racks of bows.

So our official total for the first day, March 9, is 9 1960's and 1 1959 with BH prefixes.

The best part is the existence of two consecutive number pairs.

Joe St Charles, who would be as likely as any to have seen them, told me a while ago he has never seen a single consecutive number pair of 1960 Kodiaks let alone two.

DDave

[damascusdave]

Wade, I have a friend in Calgary who, when we were talking about Grumleys, walked into his bow room and brought out two, one a take down.

DDave

[damascusdave]

Oh and two friends who hit Black Angus at night.

One with a 1962 International 3/4 ton, hit a bull. The truck was not that badly dented so he must have seen it and slowed before he hit. I finally asked how the bull fared and he said, "sure made him mad, we had a hell of a time catching him".

The other happened the same year and she hit a cow with a VW bug. She got a pretty cut up forehead. Do not remember how either the cow or the car did.

DDave

[damascusdave]

Hey, is that the same Freemont where my 1986 Chevy Nova was built?

It was a joint venture involving both GM and Toyota.

It too died an ugly death, into an avalanche and then rear ended by the van following. Moments later a semi nearly wiped them all out.

We are learning lots of neat stuff in this thread. Where else but on tradgang?

DDave

[Wade Phillips]

Bjorn -

The first letter for all 64" MSW bows that I have seen is D which would make yours DA 589.

Dave -

Regarding your comment "It was a joint venture involving both GM and Toyota."

Fremont, Nebraska is the town I mentioned, there is no GM and Toyota joint venture there that I know of.... But of course some pot smoking kids could have something going there.

[Bjorn]

"Joint Venture" hahahaha Wade did you just make that up?
Thanks for the insight on 64" MSW's.

[Wade Phillips]

Originally posted by yeager:
Wade,

My 1959 Kodiak has rosewood in the sight window, but the serial number is BB341....I guess it must be one of the "mostly" bows.  Also, what color is the glass on the 1960 compared to the '59s brown and burnt orange?

Great info,  thanks

yeager - Sorry I missed your question last night...

In the normal scheme of things that I have seen, BB341 should be a 60" 1959 Kodiak, built on the 60" 1959 Kodiak form which has slightly less recurve than the 1960 Kodiak form.

The tip overlays and the riser overlays should be red and cream marcarta rather than the typical black and white glass on the 1960 Kodiaks.

The sight window wood for bows in this serial number sequence is most commonly purpleheart.

Sometimes the purpleheart is so dark that it looks like rosewood. The finish darkens to the point that you can only use the grain of the wood to determine the wood type... unless of course you want to scratch off some of the finish       - which is usually not recommended...  

There are a handful of early 1959 Kodiaks that have dark rosewood sight windows. This rosewood is the same as you would see in the sight windows of the 1958 Kodiak Specials.

The dark rosewood sight windows in 1959 Kodiaks are very rare and highly collectible.

Even rarer are the Bubinga sight windows in the 1959 Kodiaks of which I have only seen a couple.

[Bjorn]

I know this was not the topic but will include it here anyway. Knowing these letter prefixes on 1959 Kodiaks is particularly useful if you want something specific, like a 1959 Kodiak to hunt with. You would then want one with fiberglass up the string groove for a more durable bow. So, the prefixes might steer you to something later in Wade's list-like a BC in the 60" or DC in a 64", or anything after 'C' for that matter. I don't think any of the 'B' series had that-did they Wade?

[Wade Phillips]

Originally posted by Bjorn:
"Joint Venture" hahahaha Wade did you just make that up?
Thanks for the insight on 64" MSW's.

Bjorn - Yes, I did just come up with the "Joint Venture" - Guess it was a pretty natural thought for a kid who grew up in the 1960s and who was exposed to some of the hippe culture and who went off to basic training in 1967.

[Wade Phillips]

Bjorn -

Yes, the depth of the string groove is really a valuable tip and one that I like to stress when guys ask about acquiring a 1959 Kodiak to use extensively.

The string grooves were cut by hand and do vary a bit as far as depth through the glass.

I have a few BC 1959 Kodiaks and one BD 1959 Kodiak with the string grooves cut all the way through the glass into the limb lamination.

The main thing is to examine the bow to see if the string groove is cut through the glass, regardless of the serial number.

The real problem is the glass lifting at the end of the taper of the glass. I'm convinced most of this was caused from guys unstringing the bow and then putting the sting on the back of the bow in both string grooves... sometimes referred to as "reverse stringing". When someone pulled back the bow when it was reverse strung it sometimes  pulled the glass off the laminations or even cracked the laminations along the string groove.

I am always careful to completely examine the entire bow with a 10x loop before shooting an old bow for the first time. I want to make sure there are no separations or cracks in the glass or laminations.

I am overly cautious with an old bow for the first time and never shoot one that shows any signs of damage. I make sure it is repaired properly before shooting it.

It is our job to make sure these old bows that have survived for 50 years or more are properly taken care of and repaired, so they can survive another 50 years or more so the future generations can enjoy these great old bows as much as we have enjoyed owning and shooting them in our lifetime.

[damascusdave]

Originally posted by Bjorn:
I know this was not the topic but will include it here anyway. Knowing these letter prefixes on 1959 Kodiaks is particularly useful if you want something specific, like a 1959 Kodiak to hunt with. You would then want one with fiberglass up the string groove for a more durable bow. So, the prefixes might steer you to something later in Wade's list-like a BC in the 60" or DC in a 64", or anything after 'C' for that matter. I don't think any of the 'B' series had that-did they Wade?

Hey the topic is basically build the knowledge base around one series of 1960 Kodiaks which includes any and all bits of the minutest trivia.
I can feel Papa Bears presence saying "way to sort out the puzzle" or "what a bunch of silly old fools" depending on whether we are right on with our guesses, close or way off base. The seller of the BH bow I just bought has a 64 inch 59 for sale as well and with a 30 inch draw I would be far better off for hunting with it. I may just end up with it as well now.

Do you ever think I expected, when I started this thread, that I would find out that the next bow in sequence to my latest belongs to a fellow tradganger. Now I have no choice but to act on that knowledge. It have already pm'd the owner with a proposal.

You guys have forgotten more about Bear bows than I will ever know and I am humbled and honoured to be in your company. I love to teach people anything and everything that I can and what I need is a broad and accurate knowledge base.
 
And btw the Freemont I was referring to is in California where the concept of joint venture takes on an even greater meaning.

DDave

[Bjorn]

I kinda' thought that was the Fremont in question the plant is about 15 miles from my house, and we are arm pit deep in 'joint ventures' here. 'Joint Venture' I'm glad this thread came along. Ol' Fred would be proud.    

[Steve95]

What does a DD 021 mean? 64", 46# at 28" , gold ink. Talked to the first owner, said he bought it in 59'.

[damascusdave]

Originally posted by Bjorn:
I kinda' thought that was the Fremont in question the plant is about 15 miles from my house, and we are arm pit deep in 'joint ventures' here. 'Joint Venture' I'm glad this thread came along. Ol' Fred would be proud.      

Okay so now I gotta come visit you cause that was one hell of a car. I sold it to my stepson and it had been in two accidents before he bought it. He had so many accidents with it he was not even sure. One day when he was working someone hit it and caved in both passenger side doors in the parking lot.

They were a Corolla with GM wrapper and the Corollas from that era rusted like crazy whereas the Novas, what few are still left around, generally look pretty nice.

DDave