BH Prefix 1960 Kodiaks

[damascusdave]

Okay now, so the serial on the 59 in question is DV440 telling me it is a later 59 and then there is an "E" below the draw weight. Now what might the "E" mean?

DDave

[Wade Phillips]

Originally posted by Bjorn:
...'Joint Venture' I'm glad this thread came along. Ol' Fred would be proud.        

Bjorn - Yes, Fred is one who always enjoyed a laugh.

Steve95 - In answer to your question about the meaning of DD 021 64", 46# @ 28"

The first D means the bow is a 64" 1959 Kodiak

The second D means it is the letter in the numbered series, DA, DB, DC, DD, or better stated, it is the 4th group of 999 64" Kodiaks

The 021 means that it is the 21st bow made in the DD series

So if you subscribe to thought that there are 999 bows in each the DA, DB, DC, DD

Your bow would be the 3,018 th 64" Kodiak made...

However there is some speculation as to the exact number of each bow made in a given length.

[Wade Phillips]

Originally posted by damascusdave:
Okay now, so the serial on the 59 in question is DV440 telling me it is a later 59 and then there is an "E" below the draw weight. Now what might the "E" mean?

DDave

Dave, about the DV... V is a very high second letter. The highest second letter 64" 1959 Kodiak that I have is DE, which I have always thought was near the end of the run as logically there were fewer of the 64" Kodiaks made than the 60" Kodiaks.

I'm sure that Doc can shed some light on this as he has probably worked on more 1959 Kodiaks then most of us have seen in our lifetimes.

Supposedly a letter under the draw weight indicated the employee who measured the draw weight.

Like many word of the mouth statements about Bear Bows, I have never seen any documentation from the factory to substantiate the statement as absolute fact.

[damascusdave]

Yeah, I would guess the Doc is still havin some computer issues, I keep hoping he will show up any time.

I think I am gonna let the 59 slide as I need a long bow in my arsenal for the North American Longbow Safari and I have been playing with a very nice Robertson for quite a while.

Had a neat experience a while ago. Went out to shake down some crabapples for my back yard mulies and there was my cat in the tree trying to catch a magpie. We got a little contest on for whose cat can make a documented magpie kill.

On second thought a 64 incher like that does not appear every day.

Oh well, only cure for this addiction is more bows.

DDave

[Larry m]

Thanks for all the shared info. Thats why I like it here so much. My Archery Collecting knowledge has grown tremendously since accessing this site.

[yeager]

 

 

Wade,

No problem at all.   Thanks for getting back.  Now that I looked closer, it just might be purpleheart in the riser which, like you mentioned,  sometimes becomes very dark.  And it does have the red/cream tip & riser overlays.

I'm in the process of refinishing one of my 1957 Kodiaks, and when complete I'll start on my 1959.  Hopefully that will bring out the color of the purpleheart.  It wouldn't be my luck to have one of those rare 1959's with the dark rosewood!

Again, thanks!!

Yeager

[yeager]

Dave,

By the way, I hope you don't mind my asking Wade a few questions on "your" post.

Yeager

[damascusdave]

Originally posted by yeager:
Dave,

By the way, I hope you don't mind my asking Wade a few questions on "your" post.

Yeager

When Wade comes out to play we should all benefit.

I pretty much just bought the 59 as well which has, surprisingly, a purple heart i-beam ( and i do not even like purple heart). On the other hand the rosewood is to die for.

I might have just missed it if you had not started the ball rolling with Wade back a couple of pages.

Thank you.

DDave

[yeager]

No, thank you.....great post and a wealth of information to had by all!!

[Wade Phillips]

yeager -

You posted some very nice photographs of your 59 Kodiak.

Judging from the grain in your I-Beam and the color of the wood, I am certain that it is Purpleheart.

A word of caution from an overly cautious old fart, if the bow were mine, I'd make certain the diagonal crack in the Purpleheart was properly repaired before I shot it.

[Larry m]

Wade, You guys have perked my curiousity so I just have to ask. It would appear that a lot more research has gone on since the Shooting and Collecting Article came out by the late Al Reader on the dating of Bear Bows. :"numbering system on 50's and early 60's the serial numbers were started over every month." As opposed to every 999 bows. A few other questions comes to mind and that being would each model of the Bear line in those years have a similar numbering system only with a different initial letter? I have a 59 KS XF086 and  59 Griz FG584L. And, as the 59 year came to an end could they have used the silver coin due to running out of brass. Just wondering....... Great Thread Dave

[yeager]

Thanks Wade,

 I guess I'm just used to seeing that beautiful true purple color that the Bowdoc gets when he refinishes a bow.  And yes, she won't be shot until I refinish her, crack and all.

[Wade Phillips]

Larry -

Unfortunately, Al isn't here any longer to give us his insights. And a lot of time has passed which has brought many more bows to the surface for us to examine and catalog. I have the benefit of reading what Al wrote, talking to Al many times about these things, having the partial Bear factory serial number records to examine and dissect and the time to focus on this particular subject for quite a while since Al's death.

I'm pretty much a fact based guy who likes to have concrete evidence in documents and/or artifacts from the era.

Larry - I have covered the 1959 Kodiak Special serial numbers in great depth in another thread somewhere. I'll try to find it and post the link here.

That thread will answer your question, and you can plug in your serial number.

In 1959, each different bow style and length had the first letter to designate that specific bow. There were 5 different lengths of the 1959 Kodiak Special.

Your XF086 should be a 66" 1959 Kodiak Special.

It is possible that any bow could be mis-marked as humans were marking them. And as I have said many times, there are exceptions to nearly every rule with Bear Bows.

For the 1959 Grizzly, it was advertised only in 62" length and all of those bows that I remember seeing were marked with the first letter F.

Of course there is the lone 64" 1959 Grizzly which is also marked with an F as the first letter. Proof again, there is nearly always at least one exception to any rule.

Forget the coins, they are the most unreliable method to determine the date of a bow... If you re-read Al's comments about dating bows, he specifically stated coins should be used with other features.... he never stated it should be the only feature...

I try to preach this to everyone.. Any coin could have been put in any bow at any time.

Using only coins to date bows is for the beginning armature.

[damascusdave]

Originally posted by Larry m:
Wade, You guys have perked my curiousity so I just have to ask. It would appear that a lot more research has gone on since the Shooting and Collecting Article came out by the late Al Reader on the dating of Bear Bows. :"numbering system on 50's and early 60's the serial numbers were started over every month." As opposed to every 999 bows. A few other questions comes to mind and that being would each model of the Bear line in those years have a similar numbering system only with a different initial letter? I have a 59 KS XF086 and  59 Griz FG584L. And, as the 59 year came to an end could they have used the silver coin due to running out of brass. Just wondering....... Great Thread Dave

Thanks, Larry, for the positive feedback. Check out the pics of the Twins in my earlier 1960 Kodiak thread and you will see they both have copper coins, so copper got used for at least some of the early 60 bows.

BH667 has an aluminum coin.

DDave

[Wade Phillips]

Dave -

As I have stated numerous times, I have owned and seen more 1960 Kodiaks with copper coins than with aluminum coins.

Again - Any coin could have been put in any bow at any time.

It is best to just forget the coins, they are as unimportant as other cosmetic features such as the rest and strike plate which are also easily replaced.

There are even 1959 Kodiaks as well as 1960 Kodiaks with No Coin Hole and No Coin ...

[damascusdave]

Can you imagine a modern day production bow leaving the factory with no coin?

The reason I buy, shoot and recommend these bows to others is that they have the character of not being truly mass produced.

BTW the id number for my bow on the bay is:

150573570307

DDave

[Wade Phillips]

Dave -

Better yet, - Can you imagine a modern day production bow leaving the factory with a Brazilian Rosewood Riser ? - No Way

They don't make them like they used to...

Your 150573570307 is a very nice looking bow. Judging from the price, there must still be a lot of interest in the LH 1960s....

[Wade Phillips]

Larry -

I want to touch again on the incorrect belief of what you quoted...

"numbering system on 50's and early 60's the serial numbers were started over every month."

The records from the Bear Factory actually state the serial numbers for each month. Some times a single series spanned several months...

I will give you a good example which we have talked about during the past two days....

The 56" 1959 Kodiaks are all numbered AA... now do you really believe that all 700 of these bows were made in the same month ????  And then no others were made during the other 11 months ???

That is not even logical. Not to mention the fact that serial number records prove that in some instances that a single series spanned several months.

Again, facts from the era in conjunction with examining a large number of the bows from the specific years, clearly proves the facts.

[damascusdave]

Well so far no new numbers for today, but man did we cover some territory.

And the best is yet to come, we got some key players who have yet to be heard from.

DDave

[damascusdave]

Let me rephrase that, the rest is yet to come. Hard to believe it can get any better.

DDave