Author Topic: BH Prefix 1960 Kodiaks (Read 8089 times)

Wade Phillips · « **Reply #60 on:** March 10, 2011, 10:48:00 PM »

Larry -

Here is the link to the Kodiak Special Numbers that I mentioned....

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=002059;p=1

I just copied the KS Serial Numbers here and put your KS in there with these assumptions. You can tell us if my assumptions are correct...

1959 66". ??# - XF086 - no underlays - Larry

My crystal ball isn't working well enough to come up with the draw weight, you will have to help us with that number until I can get the crystal ball polished up a bit...

1959 62", 42# - VA040 - underlays - Bjorn
1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - BowDoc to Tom to Bill
1959 62", 46# - VA 228 - underlays - Chuck
1959 62", 50# - Display - underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA467L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA558L - no underlays - Trap
1959 62", 55# - VA612L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 40-45# - 17HX12 - no underlays - Chuck

1959 64", 52# - WA139 - underlays - Wade
1959 64", 32# - WA728 - underlays - Mike
1959 64", 52# - WA749 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 64", 48# - WB504 - underlays - Trap
1959 64", 28# - WB934 – no underlays - Bill
1959 64", 45# - WB998 - no underlays - minnesota_hunter
1959 64", 45# - WC020 - underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 53# - WC061 - no underlays - Jeremy
1959 64", 47# - WC365L - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 40# - WC839 - no underlays - Auction 8-30-09
1959 64", 50# - WD438 - no underlays - Hoof
1959 64", 50# - ?????? - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 52# - WL197 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 64", 41# - 30HX1R - no underlays - Wade sold

1959 66", 55# - XA523 - underlays - Hoof
1959 66", 40# - XA591 - no underlays - Auction 8-22-2009
1959 66", 28# - XA844 - underlays - Wade
1959 66", 43# - XA969 - underlay - Bjorn
1959 66", 37# - XB05 - underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 40# - XB62 - Auction 2-8-2010
1959 66", 42# - XB348 - underlays - Auction 2-14-2010
1959 66", 40# - XB626 - Auction 8-30-2009
1959 66", 42# - XC412 - no underlays - Chris
1959 66", 44# - XD049 - no underlays - Scott
1959 66", 48# - XD119 - no overlays - Trap
1959 66", 49# - XD178 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 40# - XE403L - no underlays - seboomook
1959 66", 47# - XE685 – no underlays Dennis
1959 66", 42# - XF074 - no underlay - minnesota_hunter
1959 66". 40# - XF086 - no underlays - Larry
1959 66", 39# - XF090 – no underlays - Chuck
1959 66", 40# - XF790 - Auction 2-13-2010
1959 66", 40# - XF877R - no underlays - Chuck

1959 68", 45#@29" - YA349 - underlays - Dennis
1959 68", 45# - YA367 - underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YA456 - underlays - 2-26-2008 Auction
1959 68”, 32# - YB499A - no underlays – Chuck
1959 68", 55# - YA540 - Auction 2-8-2010
1959 68", 47# - YB626L - no underlays - Jeff
1959 68", 38# - YB965 - no underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YC039 - No underlays - Trap
1959 68", 55# - 9YX29 - no underlays - Bjorn

1959 70", 40# - ZA110 - underlays - Chuck
1959 70", 38# - ?????? - underlays removed - Wade
1959 70", 50# - 5VX26 - no underlays - Trap

Larry m · « **Reply #61 on:** March 10, 2011, 11:33:00 PM »

Hi Wade
It was meant as a question and not stated as a fact. Obviously your knowledge is far superior and that is why I posed the question to you. The illogical quote on monthly dating was taken from Shooting and Collecting Older Bear Archery Bows. I have a tendancy to let my mind wander a bit. There is alot of info that has been covered here over the years that is buried and not readily accessable. I realize nothing is cast in stone on the production of Bear Bows and that human error was a constant and changing factor and yes, the placement of coins was also included. I gave the KS and Griz # as an example only. The idea is to move beyond amateur and become more knowledgeable. Thanks for the KS link. Hurry and get that book written!
Hope I didn't offend you Wade.

Wade Phillips · « **Reply #62 on:** March 11, 2011, 12:10:00 AM »

Larry -

You didn't offend me at all. I simply took your question at face value. I certainly hope I did not offend you as that was never intended.

I'm glad you asked the question, because we all need to know the latest findings and updated information.

When I make a statement that is in conflict with what might be accepted as fact stated by another person, I like to clearly state the facts that support my statement, and let all the facts come to light.

Our objective should always be to arrive at the genuine truth, rather than try to determine who may have been incorrect on some point.

The KS and Griz were great examples...

So what is the draw weight of your KS, so we can updated the records.... ???

You are correct, there is much information lost in the buried threads that have gone before.

I'm just thankful that there is a thread search capability so I can find these previous threads.

Larry m · « **Reply #63 on:** March 11, 2011, 01:19:00 AM »

Hi Wade
Thanks and please pardon me but as stated I have a Tendency to let my mind get to wandering when it comes to neat old items. A little info can be dangerous at times. The KS numbering system is dead on. Mine is a R/H 66" 40# with no underlays. Not sure on how to check the archives here other then a Google search. The longer I use this site the more I realize a lot of subjects have previously been covered.
Ok, now back to the Kodiak's cause I'm learning a lot here.

Larry m · « **Reply #64 on:** March 11, 2011, 01:32:00 AM »

Jeez, directly in front of me! SEARCH right next to profile.

damascusdave · « **Reply #65 on:** March 11, 2011, 03:11:00 AM »

Okay mind wanderer, here is the problem I have with doing a search.

I start out focused and then get into a couple of pics that are interesting and next thing you know I have fogotten what I was searching for.

This thread is a great example of what wandering can do. I am now a collector of 64 inch 59's as well. And I have still not bought one that looks like it has been used much.

Wade has a great pic of a bunch of 60 Kodiaks lined up side by each, which shows the wide variation in limb tips, and I have been trying to get back to it for 2 days and still not even close.

DDave

damascusdave · « **Reply #66 on:** March 11, 2011, 04:12:00 AM »

Wade sorta forgot the most important thread to this discussion so I will link it here.

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=002799;p=2

DDave

damascusdave · « **Reply #67 on:** March 11, 2011, 04:35:00 AM »

And a couple pics of my own to add.

I will let the pics speak for themselves.

DDave

Wade Phillips · « **Reply #68 on:** March 11, 2011, 06:55:00 AM »

Dave -

Will just copy that text and photograph from the July 2009 thread here so we have it to view..

Scott - Yes, many of the 60 grips are fat. Some of them are almost like having a hold of a tennis ball.

Lon - Yes, there are lots of variations.

The 6th from left with limbs like yours is # BJ116 which is toward the end of the B series numbers before they were abandoned.

There are really some different looking riser overlay shapes, particularly right at the shelf.

Not difficult to pick out the bows that are refinished... (and those that beg for refinish)

Wade Phillips · « **Reply #69 on:** March 11, 2011, 07:04:00 AM »

Bill -

The history of the ownership of VA105 is updated - BowDoc to Tom to Bill

Thanks for calling my attention to that badly needed update.

Let me know if anyone has other updates to add...

Wade Phillips · « **Reply #70 on:** March 11, 2011, 07:14:00 AM »

Larry -

Your questions are right on, no need to ask to be pardoned. It is important to revisit many of these issues and update the information that needs to be updated.

Glad you discovered the search feature. It is helpful, but sometimes gives us too many options...

Yes, the KS numbering system is dead on with your 66" KS with no underlays. I'm glad you only gave partial information so the rest could be filled in for you.

But remember there is almost always at least one exception to every rule about Bear Bows...

Larry m · « **Reply #71 on:** March 11, 2011, 12:28:00 PM »

Wade and Dave
Great Pictures. Thanks! Just the transition from 59 to 60 and all the variables can be a bit mind boggling. In the past I have tried to use old Bear catalogs and previous stated info for the dating process. I'm in the process of chucking that out the window because nothing seems to be cast in stone when it comes to Bear Archery. I especially found the dating numbering system on the Kodiaks to be very interesting.

Wade Phillips · « **Reply #72 on:** March 12, 2011, 05:07:00 AM »

Larry -

I hate to beat a dead horse, but want to re-visit something you brought up so we can finish the discussion about the once popular belief that each month the serial numbers were started over.

When we look at these 1959 Kodiak Special serial numbers and see when the underlays were abandoned, we see these facts...

For the 62" bows, VA228 is the last known number with underlays, and VA612 is the highest known number...

So if we buy into the VA series being made in the same month, roughly only the first 1/2 month the bows had underlays... and the VA was abandoned after the first month... both are not logical assumptions...

For the 64" bows, WB504 is the highest known number with underlays... and numbers after WB934 have no underlays... so if we buy into the letters changing each month the WB series would have been made in the second month...

It is not even logical that underlays were abandoned during the first month for the 62" bows but not abandoned for the 64" bow until the second month.

And if the letters were changed each month why were the 62" bows made one month and the 64" bows made 12 months...

62" made 1 month - VA612 highest # - ???
64" made 12 months - WL197 highest # - ???
66" made 7 months - XF877 highest # - ???
68" made 3 months - YC039 highest # - ???
70" made 1 month - ZA110 highest # - ???

Again, none of these are logical assumptions...

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=002059;p=1

1959 62", 42# - VA040 - underlays - Bjorn
1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - BowDoc to Tom to Bill
1959 62", 46# - VA 228 - underlays - Chuck
1959 62", 50# - Display - underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA467L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA558L - no underlays - Trap
1959 62", 55# - VA612L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 40-45# - 17HX12 - no underlays - Chuck

1959 64", 52# - WA139 - underlays - Wade
1959 64", 32# - WA728 - underlays - Mike
1959 64", 52# - WA749 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 64", 48# - WB504 - underlays - Trap
1959 64", 28# - WB934 – no underlays - Bill
1959 64", 45# - WB998 - no underlays - minnesota_hunter
1959 64", 45# - WC020 - underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 53# - WC061 - no underlays - Jeremy
1959 64", 47# - WC365L - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 40# - WC839 - no underlays - Auction 8-30-09
1959 64", 50# - WD438 - no underlays - Hoof
1959 64", 50# - ?????? - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 52# - WL197 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 64", 41# - 30HX1R - no underlays - Wade sold

1959 66", 55# - XA523 - underlays - Hoof
1959 66", 40# - XA591 - no underlays - Auction 8-22-2009
1959 66", 28# - XA844 - underlays - Wade
1959 66", 43# - XA969 - underlay - Bjorn
1959 66", 37# - XB05 - underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 40# - XB62 - Auction 2-8-2010
1959 66", 42# - XB348 - underlays - Auction 2-14-2010
1959 66", 40# - XB626 - Auction 8-30-2009
1959 66", 42# - XC412 - no underlays - Chris
1959 66", 44# - XD049 - no underlays - Scott
1959 66", 48# - XD119 - no overlays - Trap
1959 66", 49# - XD178 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 40# - XE403L - no underlays - seboomook
1959 66", 47# - XE685 – no underlays Dennis
1959 66", 42# - XF074 - no underlay - minnesota_hunter
1959 66". 40# - XF086 - no underlays - Larry
1959 66", 39# - XF090 – no underlays - Chuck
1959 66", 40# - XF790 - Auction 2-13-2010
1959 66", 40# - XF877R - no underlays - Chuck

1959 68", 45#@29" - YA349 - underlays - Dennis
1959 68", 45# - YA367 - underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YA456 - underlays - 2-26-2008 Auction
1959 68”, 32# - YB499A - no underlays – Chuck
1959 68", 55# - YA540 - Auction 2-8-2010
1959 68", 47# - YB626L - no underlays - Jeff
1959 68", 38# - YB965 - no underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YC039 - No underlays - Trap
1959 68", 55# - 9YX29 - no underlays - Bjorn

1959 70", 40#@29 ZA067 - underlays - Minnesota hunter
1959 70", 40# - ZA110 - underlays - Chuck
1959 70", 38# - ?????? - underlays removed - Wade
1959 70", 50# - 5VX26 - no underlays - Trap

Larry m · « **Reply #73 on:** March 13, 2011, 01:22:00 AM »

Hi Wade
Thank You. Your research and dedication is outstanding! It amazes me the detail you have managed to bring out in your efforts. There is nothing out here such as this that I have ever had access to. I really should not be surprised after going through your book, Broadheads 1871-1971. A very finely detailed piece of work. Your right in your word of caution in the archives but I see you guys have done a lot of work there also. More please!

damascusdave · « **Reply #74 on:** March 13, 2011, 01:33:00 PM »

Was taking a better look at the twins and am gonna stop shooting them for now. They will still be waiting.

You know this info has really been available all along, what we are doing is ammalgamating it in one location.

And we still have not heard from some key additional players.

DDave

damascusdave · « **Reply #75 on:** March 13, 2011, 07:32:00 PM »

Gonna take this one back up to the top for one more round and hope that the Doc notices and responds.

DDave

damascusdave · « **Reply #76 on:** March 16, 2011, 11:38:00 AM »

Not gonna let this thread die just yet cause Chuck is gonna check his inventory.

Just a quick question for all. Were rug rests a factory install on this era of Bear just like the featherrest was?

DDave

hayslope · « **Reply #77 on:** March 16, 2011, 12:26:00 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the rug rest did not show up until 61.

Bjorn · « **Reply #78 on:** March 16, 2011, 12:46:00 PM »

First bow I saw it on was a '61 K mag.

vintage-bears · « **Reply #79 on:** March 17, 2011, 12:06:00 PM »

Wade, your knowledge of these bows is invaluable.
I learned alot from following this tread.Thanks....Philip

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Author Topic: BH Prefix 1960 Kodiaks (Read 8089 times)

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