Dogs for Tracking

[deerfly]

I'm glad this one was brought back too.

Tracking a wounded animal is probably one of the easiest things to teach a dog to do, assuming the trainer/dog relationship is good. Actually few things are more fun to a dog than to chase deer, wounded or otherwise, which is why it can be a problem in some areas. Pretty much any dog will pick up a fresh trail pretty easily once they figure out thats what you want them to do.

Most of my dog hunting experience has been with the "conventional" hound breeds on deer, hogs and raccoons. But every so often someone shows up to a hunt with some nearly unidentifiable mutt that'll run with the rest of them or even lead in some cases. After you've seen enough of this you realize its not entirely a hound or sporting breed characteristic, its just a dog thing.

The real breed vs breed differences come into play when you have cold and hot nosed dogs in the pack and they get separated following different tracks. Or you have some dogs that have not been "broke" on 1 species and will often break off the original track to go after something else more interesting to them like a raccoon, fox or hog and take a handful of the rest of the pack with them. This is where the training discipline and breed characteristics affect what you're trying to accomplish with the dogs.

I think this is where Tim's comments on pointers and birds comes into play too. Personally, I've never seen a pointing breed that was also used to track game, where the pointing wasn't negatively affected by the dog wanting to track an animal at some point during a bird hunt. I'm speaking more about quail hunting where deer also exist. If you're a serious bird hunter then you probably won't train your dogs to track game.

Tbilisi, beagles are excellent tracking dogs. Just don't expect them to sit quietly in the truck or back at camp as he/she watches you go off into the field. There will be hell to pay until they're out in front of you showing you how you're supposed to be doing it.  

[Tim Schoenborn]

I think this is where Tim's comments on pointers and birds comes into play too. Personally, I've never seen a pointing breed that was also used to track game, where the pointing wasn't negatively affected by the dog wanting to track an animal at some point during a bird hunt. I'm speaking more about quail hunting where deer also exist. If you're a serious bird hunter then you probably won't train your dogs to track game.

Bingo! We have a WINNER!

[Kerwin]

Great thread.  I got a minature short hair Dox for my kids early this year.  This did some research and found out that the Dox is very good at this stuff.  I thougth what the heck I will try it.  First chance I got to get some deer blood to train I did.  I have been very pleased with it.  I did shoot a deer and had it trial it, easy trail but he loves it.  I think he migh do a good job.  The big problem I see is being a small short hair dog he get cold to fast.


CKruse - what part of MO are you in?  Would like someone close to compair notes with.  you can send me a prive message if you want.

[Bowmania]

One of the problems with labs is their size.  I need leather gloves so my hands arn't rubbed raw.

On the other hand, Bridger is a yellow lab that's almost pure white, there is NOTHING that looks better than that white fur stained with red blood.

Bowmania

[laddy]

My daughter has a dox, that dog could find a vole in a squirrel factory, and chewing gum in a hay stack, but when their problem bear comes calling or when a town friendly bobcat made the space under their front porch home for a cold snap last winter he goes deaf, dumb and blind.  he is always cold, International falls, MN.  Come to think of it, maybe he knows which fights not to pick.

[tippit]

Kerwin,  My daschund doesn't get cold tracking cause she is really revved up.  But once she finds the deer and I have to tie her up to clean it...different story!  My wife made me a Polar fleece bag that zips up with her head out.  I just carry that in my back pack when tracking...Doc

[Kerwin]

Tippit, I thought of something like that.  As you said if he is tracking he don't seem to be cold.  But when that short hair and 9 pounds  of skin and bones stops he sure shivers.  I have only had him on one real trail and severl traing trails and hope to get him on another real trail or two this year.  I ahve been collecting blood and hide to do training on the off season.  The book that everyone has talked about "Tracking Dogs for Finding Wonded Deer" is the best.  Got it last summer and it was well worth the $

[ckruse]

Kerwin, I'm in Neosho, right in the SW corner of the state.

Tracking jobs, like tracking dogs, come in different shapes and sizes. What works for one part of the country and local customs may not be ideal or even legal in another. Till you get down to training a dog, most people probably believe that most dogs can trail a wounded animal. This may be so to an extent. The difference is, adding 20-40 hours to that track, interspersed with the tracks of numerous healthy animals, tough conditions, etc. This is what separates a dog bred and trained to do an outstanding job at the task, and one that might get by under easy or ideal circumstances.

The dog I aspire to own, and am working hard to train is the one that can iron out the tough ones under the worst conditions. For the guys that have never seen a hunting dachshund, a lot of them laugh at first- thinking of the average American pet counterpart. Till you've seen one go down a den hole and take hold of a mature red fox, bay a russian boar, or the myriad of other hunting duties they are capable of, you just don't understand what you've got there. I also prescribe to the European way of keeping their animals. The average hunting dog in Europe whether it be a Teckel(dachshund), Weimar, Pointer, or whatever is kept in the home like a pet. Most are very close companion dogs, and a number of them multi-task. Most American hunting dogs are kept kenneled and used more as a tool, kind of akin to getting your shotgun out to hunt birds. I think it may just be a societal difference.

My experience is limited at this time, but I'm more than happy to assist in any way. The best advice I can give is to get the book and adapt what parts of it you need for your purpose. I would also encourage anyone interested to join United Blood Trackers. It is an invaluable source of information, and is a growing network of tracking dog owners. CKruse

[Labs4me]

CKruse

Quote:

"Most American hunting dogs are kept kenneled and used more as a tool, kind of akin to getting your shotgun out to hunt birds. I think it may just be a societal difference."

CK...Thanks for the best laugh of the day!!!

KENNEL DOGS?????

 

Think you're man enough to put these Labs in a kennel??? LOL

 

[Labs4me]

A future Trad Ganger in the making...

 

[guzzi2000]

Bowmania, I see you are from Wisconsin as I am. For some reason I didn't think it was legal to use dogs on deer. Could you fill me in on the legalities.

[Labs4me]

Guys:

On the chance that this thread actually inspires someone to acquire a new huntin' buddy - WHATEVER BREED YOU CHOOSE - do yourself a favor and buy the book (or borrow my copy!), "The Labrador Shooting Dog" by Mike Gould. Mike is the absolute master of "soft" dog training techniques and his methods fly directly in the face of the shock collar-pain avoidance dog training which is as prevelent these days as compound bows.

IF...

1)  Your goal is to build a relationship with your future hunting buddy (again, whatever the breed) based on MUTUAL trust, respect and affection- this is the book for you.

2)  Your desire is to end up with a well rounded, obedient, hunt anything, go-to-the-end-of-the-earth-to-please-you hunting companion, THIS is the book for you.

3)  Your desire is to end up with a dog you can travel with, take anywhere, and trust in any situation, this is the book for you.

Just an absolutely fantastic book and I've read 'em all.

[tippit]

Tilly is from a line of the Jeanneney breeding.  She's a tough little bugger but very gentle with adults & kids.  I'm very strict with her as a kennel dog...except she thinks the kennel is sleeping under the covers not just on the bed  :D  She will probably be going to Quebec Bear Quest this spring.  Here she is at 3 months...Doc

 

[Labs4me]

Tippit,

My Wife, Natalie frequently visits this site. At the moment, I PRAYING she doesn't see the picture of your dog Tilly. I can just hear her now, "Why can't we have a dog like Tilly?"

Neat dog!!!

[ckruse]

Monty, notice I said most, not all and obviously present company is likely to be excluded. I would also bet for every Lab kept in the house their is a pointer or spaniel that is kenneled out back. Beagles and coonhounds would be even higher. Keep in mind I'm not saying what's right or wrong, it's just the way it is and it's a different mindset. BTW, my other dog is a yellow Lab. Here's another comical photo featuring Fred's favorite dog Gus. These two play and squabble all day, then get into a puppy pile like a couple of weanlings when it's time to hit the hay! They have never fought at all, but have some hilarious chases through the house and yard.  

[ckruse]

Here's the crew on a "Rocky Mountain High last June at the Peak of Monarch Pass. The above photo of Fred helping me drive was taken on this same trip. Gus looks a little less like El Diablo in this pic!  CKruse
 

[Labs4me]

CK,

I do not have the stats or even a reference to site, so I cannot debate your perception/assertion that "most" dogs are kept in kennels in the U.S. In my experience, however, the converse is true.

Nice pictures BTW. And, I "piddy da fool" who tries to take the rubber toy away from Kujo and mini-me Kujo.

[ckruse]

Monty, thanks for the remarks, as you can see these two are family. Gus is a pup out of our old chocolate Lab Duke, who passed at age 14. I bought him as a pet for my wife, who at the time was a coon hunting widow! He became our first child, and Gus is different yet the same in many ways. He's kind of had to deal with not being the baby since Fred came along.

I don't think there would be a way to accurately research the kennel vs house for hunting dogs. Obviously most dogs would be pets kept in the house. As far as dogs used specifically for hunting, I'm basing that opinion on what I've seen most of my life. Your experience is different and I respect that. You have some beautiful Labradors, and it's clear you are passionate about them. Thats a very good thing in my book. CKruse

[James Ligon]

This is my first attempt at posting pics - hope it works.  If it does, here are 2 pics of our Bavarian Mountain Hound,Jacob.


 

 

[Labs4me]

JL,

Good looking dog. But how'd ya attach that TREE to that deer's head?