Howard Hill and bamboo.

[flint kemper]

Thanks for the info. I will do some searching.

[JavelinaHink]

Cliff.....  :cool:  I do have a set of Rhode's Books and use them alot along with bound sets and looking for other Bound sets I don't have.
Have List:
The Archer's Register 1886,1901-1910
The Archery Review Vol.1-4
Ye Sylvan Archer Vol.1-6 ,Loose 1939,1941
Archery 1944-1973
The Archers Maganzine 1952-1963
Bowhunter 1971-1983
National Field Archer 1962
The Feathered Shaft 1947-1950
Tam and The National Bowhunter 1963-1964
Tam and The Archery World 1964-1966
The Eastern Bowhunter 1956-1959
Bow & Arrow 1963-1984
Archery World 1966-1984

 Thanks for the info  :cool:  Hink

[Liquid Amber]

The earliest published material credited to Howard Hill I've located and collected is the Miami News article from Jan 1931.

Maybe this list will provide some help in finding Hill material.  I always identify if I have an original, copy, or printed text of the piece in my records.

HOWARD HILL BIBLIOGRAPHY

Books

orig.   Hunting The Hard Way - 1953
orig.   Wild Adventure - 1954 [Inscribed and signed by Howard and Elizabeth Hill to Don Carson; Don    Carson’s personal copy]
orig.   Wild Adventure - 1955 British Edition, DJ
orig.   Hunting The Hard Way - 1956 British Edition, DJ

Books About Hill

orig.   Howard Hill, The man and the Legend – 1982- Ekin, Craig
orig.   Early Adventures with Howard Hill – 2004 - Carson, Don [published by Ted Fry]

Magazine Articles

Archers’ Magazine, The [TAM]
orig.   “Operation Build-Up” What it is - June15-July 15, 1961

Bow & Arrow
orig.   “Longbow Versus Recurve” - Sept/Oct 1963

Feathered Shaft, The
orig.   “Types of Archery” - Dec. 1947

Field and Stream
orig.   “A Bear Charges” - December 1934
orig.   “Tigre on the Loose” - July 1949

Outdoor Life
orig.   “Buffalo Hunt, Indian Style” - March 1936
orig.   “The Lost Art of Stalking’ - September 1936 [part 1]
orig.   “The Lost Art of Stalking’ - October 1936 [conclusion]
orig.   “Wild Boar” - August 1937
orig.   “A Bow for a Bighorn” - January 1938
orig.   “Big Blue of the Flat Top” - November 1944

Popular Science
orig.   “New Flight Bow Pulls Instead Of Pushes The Arrow” - June 1937

Sports Afield
orig.   “Devil Cats” - May 1947
orig.   “Big Thunder” – Castleton, Paul A. – April 1949
orig.   “An Archer Goes To Africa” - February 1952
orig.   “An Archer Goes To Africa, Part II” - March 1952
orig.   “An Archer Goes To Africa, Part III” - April 1952
orig.   “An Archer Goes To Africa, Part IV” - May 1952
orig.   “An Archer Goes To Africa, Part V” - June 1952
orig.   “An Archer Goes To Africa, Part VI” - July 1952

Ye Sylvan Archer
copy   “Target Shooting As A Side Attraction” - May 1931
copy   “A Tribute of Appreciation” - May 1936
copy   “Field Archery at the National” - Dec. 1937
copy   “Boars, Bullets, Brommers” - May 1938

Newspaper articles by Hill

The Miami News
text   “Bow and Arrow, once implements of war, now popular in sports.” – January 31, 1931
-------------------------------------------

[Liquid Amber]

This is the type of the interesting stuff one can uncover when snooping around in old newspapers.  

I've yet to find a later article covering the outcome of the match, so don't know for sure if it ever went down.  There is a history of announcements by Hill planning or announcing future events that never materialized.  If you use this article as the basis for claiming Hill played Hagen, it may or not be factual.  

The Milwaukee journal – August 3, 1929

“Hagen, Smith to Match Drives With an Archer”

By Walter Hagen (British Open golf Champion)

Over a Boston course next Wednesday Horton Smith and I will try our skill against Howard Hill, archery champion.  Hill will play our best ball and we have been told the match will be about even, although I believe the archery champion will defeat us.

There is growing interest in archery golf along the Maine coast, and at Newagen, Me. The first nine-hole archery golf course has been constructed with Hill as the professional.  It is the only course of this type in the north.

Archery golf is played on a regular golf course or on a course especially constructed.  The cup, a wire circle or target of the same diameter as a golf cup, is supported by a short wire standard slanting at an angle of 45 degrees.  The arrow must pass through the wire target before a hole is completed.

Off the tee, Hill will have an advantage of more than 100 yards and I think that he will also stand a far better chance of getting down in one shot when on the greens than Horton and I.

Maine is having an active sports season.  Horton smith and I have been playing exhibitions there and before we finish we will have played in Old Orchard, Kennebunk,  Bangor, Skowhegan and Augusta.  The finest course we have played in Maine is the Kenobscot Valley course in Bangor, along the Kenobscot River.  The holes are of championship design and the scenery is magnificent.

[Liquid Amber]

I make hard copies of every article or piece of information on every archery subject or archer I collect and compile information on.  

I also maintain a Word Doc with every mention, note or bit of information on them for "any" source I find it in.  Everything I record shows source information and all is placed in chronological order and stored in binders.  Over the past 20 years or so I've went page by page through every archery magazine, article and book in my collection and loans from others.  I can access every piece of information I've ever found on a subject of archer I follow very quickly.  My files are always a work in progress as I ad information daily/weekly.  Here's a short sample from Hill's file:

Archery Review - August 1935

55th National Tournament

The Art Young Round was very well attended, Mardee Robinson beating the old hunter, Howard Hill, by a margin of two points.  This new round gives promise of being one of the best of drawing cards for all archers.  Howard Hill did a lot of fancy shooting for the entertainment of us dubs on the low end of the line by shooting pennies at about five yards distance.  A hit meant Howard’s penny and your loss.  You might notice that [Hill's score] 566 American shot, snap shooting without a point of aim. [pg. 2]

Ye Sylvan Archer - April 1936

Elizabeth and Howard Hill and Don Carson recently went on a wild jackass hunt in the Mojave desert.  The first day all three crawled and stalked and shot and missed.  The language was getting a bit strong for Mrs. Hill and the next day she stayed at camp.

When the hunters returned, again without getting within range of any jacks, Elizabeth proudly displayed a big blue Dartha hawk she had shot through the head.  Howard said that nobody could help but hit a target as big as a bird.  Sweetly Elizabeth inquired what size jackasses the mighty hunters had been trailing that day. [pg. 5]

American Bowman-Review - May, 1937

The Last of the Veterans - Cassius H. Styles

...Howard Hill Arrived in a taxi from the Grand Central Station and was not thrilled by the size of his fare; it was either eighteen or twenty five dollars, I forget which.  I drifted into his room one evening and was mildly told to string a little bow he pointed out that was leaning against the wall.  I didn’t quite get the loop into the upper nock, and the reason was that the bow was his 172 pounder, with which he won that year’s flight shoot.  In the room, enjoying the archery gab was Ray Work, second among the Juniors. [pg. 8]
     [1928 N.A.A. National Tournament]

[JavelinaHink]

Cliff.....you sure saved me alot of time, Thanks

Howard also had an aritcle in
"Hunter's Encyclopedia" p.878-899
1948 Stackpole and Heck, Inc.
Editor: Raymond R. Camp

[Tox Collector]

Cliff,  I am always impressed with the amount of research you do and the data you develop on these topics.  Thanks for sharing the information and these sources with us.  Greatly appreciated as well as the other tips on where to search.

I went looking for a copy of Jim Deed's catalog and found it.

In addition, I emailed my friend John D. Lee and asked him for his thoughts on the topic.  John kindly said that it would be fine with him for me to share his thoughts with our Forum members.

Here are John's thoughts:  "No one knows for sure when he [Hill] started using bamboo.  If you read Don Carson who spent time with Hill in Florida and the early days in California - there is no mention of it until he settled in Cal.  I have a bow he made for Cy Johnson of three bamboo lams - the handle of yew and lemonwood with backing and side plates of vulcanized fiber which he used right up until he got Eicholz glass after WWII.

No one made the concave/convex cross section like his which he patented in 1941.

He learned to heat treat from flyrod builders.  He liked Jap Cane Madake and thought Tonkin Cane too brittle.  Howard was the only archer to use bamboo in the 30s & 40s as near as we can tell.  Those who know the true story in re Hill's use of bamboo are all dead.  Best wishes,  John Lee"

I thought it would be interesting to share John Lee's thoughts as he has studied Howard's bows for a long time, has a nice collection and conversed with Howard about bow-making.

In searching for Deed's catalog, I came across Hill's two small pamphlets on shooting ["My Method of Shooting A Bow and Arrow"] and [Howard Hill presents Fine Points of Archery"].

Neither one of course addressed the topic at hand.  In the forward to the latter pamphlet, he did note "My lucky number seems to be seven.  During my long association with the sport, I won the National Archery Flight Chamnpionship seven consecutive times, and also won seven National Archery-Golf tournaments.  I also have been credited with pulling the strongest bow ever drawn, one hundred seventy-two pounds".  I hadn't realized he considered seven his lucky number.

Turning to Jim Deed's catalog, he begins by supplying the advantages of giant timber bamboo [I'm not sure what he means here].  "For many customers, in most cases amateur bow makers, the power of yew, osage, black locust, lemonwood, and other materials has doubled or trebled with the application of bamboo backings.  A 30# yew up to 100# is the record.

During the past four years many thousands of pieces of this material have been used with a miniumum of complaints and an ever increasing demand for bamboo.

Fully matured and seasoned bamboo has the least give or stretch of any wood used for bows or backings.  A given thickness of bamboo adds more power than the same thickness of wood, silk, sinew, or rawhide.  Bamboo takes little set, if any.  It has no appreciable "let-down" because of weather.

Bamboo is easily worked with ordinary woodworking tools, glues easily, and also recurves easily.

WARNING!  Don't scrape nodes down flush and don't leave too much of the softer center on pieces you are laminating."

The catalog next furnishes instructions for preparing bamboo for backed bows.  

He also sold laminated all bamboo bows as well as bamboo backed bows.  Bamboo backings were available "in the rough" or "processed" [the latter meaning that they were ready to be applied to the bow].

For a finished laminated all bamboo bow with recurved tips in the 50-70# weight category, it went for $65.00 while a straight tipped bow in this weight category went for $55.00.

He was located in San Leandro, CA.  The catalog notes that Jim Deeds is the founder and that Wm. I. Welker is the proprietor.

This is a most interesting 'thread' -- some excellent information here.  I had never really given any thought as to how Howard Hill was exposed to bamboo as a bow wood in the first place and how he came to use it in his bow-making and shooting.

[Liquid Amber]

There is always some confusion concerning when/how Hill damaged his leg.  Here's the scoop.

Los Angeles Times – February 2, 1949

“Howard Hill, Archer, Hurt”

Howard Hill, world’s champion archer and screen notable, was in Glendale Sanitarium yesterday, his left leg crushed at the knee joint as a result of a jeep accident while on a shooting trip with Actor Guy Madison.
     
The archer was injured when the jeep, being driven by Madison, came to a sudden curve and overturned.  The accident occurred in the Simi Valley, Near Moorpark, Monday
     
“I guess I’m going to have a bad time of it,” Hill said yesterday.  Madison was uninjured in the mishap.
     
Hill explained that Madison and he were “just fooling around shooting bows and arrows’ before the accident took place.  


If Cy Johnson's relationship with Flynn is correct, then Hill likely met Johnson through Flynn.  That would put that bow at 1938 or later.  I had read in another place it was dated 1933.  Hill had just moved to California and was living on Brisbane's Ranch at that time and it is unlikely he was making anyone bows during that time.

By 1934 Hill has moved and opened shop in Los Angeles, advertising bow of Brommer's yew in his early ads in "Archery Review."  

I do have first-hand information on Hill's bamboo I'll post later this evening.

[Tox Collector]

Interesting information on Hill's leg injury.  I didn't know the details.  Apparently he recovered okay.  Since I only drive Jeeps, I had better keep this in mind.

I assume that "Flynn" is Errol Flynn!  Who exactly is Cy Johnson?

I looked at Louis Hockman's book "The Complete Archery Book", which has some neat photos of and several articles by Howard Hill.  Howard noted the need to get off shots at game quickly and said "Because of this, I like a bow that is consistently dependable under all the diversified conditions of the hunt.  

Personally, I favor the straight-end longbow, not less that 5 feet 9 inches in over-all length, or 5 feet 8 inches betweeen nocks.  A fair amount of backset to add speed is all right, but not too much.  I make all my own bows, of split bamboo and Fiberglas face and back, by an intricate process I've developed and patented.  I shoot an 85-lb. bow for all ordinary game, a 100-lb. bow for rhino and buffalo, and a 110-lb. for elephant, drawing a 28-inch arrow on all three of them.  I believe in using a bow as heavy as I can pull without strain, because of the faster, flatter trajectory of such a bow, its greater range and greater penetration."  

Just wondering if anyone has actually seen Howard Hill's patent, which evidently explains the process he used to make his bows?  

I also emailed my friend Hugh Soar in England and asked him about the use of bamboo in bow-making in the UK.  Hugh replied that he thought that "Hardy's, the Fishing tackle makers did so -they used split tonkin cane he thought and made the limbs in the same way as they did their fishing rods."  Hugh thought that they may have also made cane arrows.  Hugh also noted that the "Bros. Freeman sold a batch of cane shafts in the 1840's, but as far as Hugh knows, there were no really early users of bamboo for bows in the UK."

As a number of you know, Hugh Soar has written a number of books on the bow and archery. He now has another new book on the way entitled "Straight and True: A Select History of the Arrow" that should be available in the near future.  Besides being a prolific writer on archery topics, he has a wonderful collection of bows and other archery artifacts.

Cliff, looking forward to your post later today on the "first hand information on Hills' bamboo".

[Tox Collector]

Doing a little more research, I see that Patent # 2256946 was granted to Hill on Sept. 23, 1941.  But there may have also been a patent granted in 1939.  There are probably a number of you who are way ahead of me on this patent question.    

[flint kemper]

Tox, I will have to dig through my stuff and look. The patent I have is for the construction of the Concave/Convex bows. It does not go into too much detail ect though.

[Tox Collector]

Flint kemper:  Somewhere I actually have a book of archery patents that extend from the late 1800's until I believe perhaps the 1940's.  My recollection is that Clem Parker [author of the "compendium of Works on Archery" and other archery books] compiled it.  The problem is that unlike many of you - I am not well organized and don't know exactly where it is.

Of course, even if we have the actual patents they may not give us what we want.  But, it doesn't hurt to investigate.

[flint kemper]

Tox, I just found it. I have the 1941 patent. I will have to dig for a 39?

[Tox Collector]

Flint kemper,  If it's helpful, let us know.  By the way, I am not positive that there is a 1939 Patent.  I saw a reference to it somewhere.

[flint kemper]

Tox, I would like to be able to see the references you told about on the prevouis page from the Deed's book about processing of the bamboo.

[Tox Collector]

Flint Kemper,  You are probably referring to his "Instructions for Preparing Bamboo for Backing Bows".  This is a small pamphlet of 14 pages.  The section on the above "Instructions" goes from pp. 2 to pp. 6 -- not a very long section, but it does have a few illustrations.  Is this what you are asking about?

[flint kemper]

Yes it is. I also just ran across this quote- " As time went on at South Bend, Jordan also invented a bamboo bow that famed archer Howard Hill used in archery tournaments."

[Liquid Amber]

"My lucky number seems to be seven. During my long association with the sport, I won the National Archery Flight Chamnpionship seven consecutive times, and also won seven National Archery-Golf tournaments. I also have been credited with pulling the strongest bow ever drawn, one hundred seventy-two pounds". I hadn't realized he considered seven his lucky number.

Hill made two flight records at the Archery Golf Tournament at Opa-Locka in 1928 with one shot.  His standing distance eclipsed both the free-style and regular standing records.  He submitted his distance for the record and since the Archery Golf Tournament was sanctioned by the NAA, it was accepted.  Hill never won another National Flight Championship and his records were beaten in 1929.  

I don't know about the seven National Archery Golf Championships because I can only come up with three contests.  He "technically" didn't win the first in  1928 because he didn't enter for the title, because he was the Pro running the Tournament.  He did shoot the rounds and was low score.  Later he had a lapse of memory and claimed the title as winning the pro division, but he was the only pro.    

I have read that Cy Johnson was financial advisor or stockbroker of Errol Flynn.  Don't know if that is true or not.  But if it is, Hill most likely met Johnson through Errol Flynn.  I believe Hill met Flynn in 1938, maybe  1937.  If so, then Hill wouldn't have made Johnson a bow prior to those dates.  And, Hill was likely not making bows for folks in 1933, he had just moved to the Brisbane Ranch and began filming "The Last Wilderness" in mid year.  It was 1934 when he opened up his shop in Los Angeles.

The following was taken from the transcript of an interview with Frank Garske.  He was well up in age but his recollection of stuff was pretty good.  It may have lost a little when transcribed from the audio tape but pretty interesting none the less.  I believe the Howard Hill outfit he is referring to is Ted Ekins and he was providing Ted information on Howard for the book Ekins published on Hill.

"Frank: I've sent bows back to them they were so bad..old Howard Hill outfit you know..#1 the bamboo is not very good anymore, still shoots ok, but it's,...shoddy workmanship and stuff at times, I couldn't believe.. I just wrapped them back up and said, hey, if you can't do better than why please give me my money back and oh, apologetic.you know, oh, yes, well, finally one guy was there, friend of Hills...

Interviewer:  John Schultz?

FRANK;  No...Stottler...he did a good job on bows...the guy was a craftsman.  I think he made more Howard Hill bows..I think he was making them even when Howard Hill was claiming that he was making them...but Howard Hill did make a lot of bows, in fact boy, he went through that routine with me and you know I told his outfit...this Howard Hill outfit, exactly the way Howard was making the bows when I was there and I don't think they believed me...he was making them then out of...insides was…tonkin cane...and but at the outset he couldn't get that big a tonkin so he was using...he'd take the regular noted [noded] stuff and he had a little plane and he would plane the pith out of the thing and this plane would round it at the same curve that the stuff...he'd just strap it down to a thing and just...and that bow was the tough way to go,, now later he made a piece of equipment that you wound the stuff through and rounded and took the pith out as it went through....but it still had ...instead of straight across it had the curvature there...and he would lay ...had a big old box 6' long, just the width...1 1/2" wide and not…quite ....1 1/4" or so...wide and that piece of bamboo just fit snuggly in the bottom then he'd lay in the strips, get them fit in...and then the next one..they were different widths, so he'd overlap the joints on the next layer of things...when he was making them cause he didn't make them this way very long.  I think he just plain ran out of..no more tonkin cane...they should have access to it now cause all the countries are open...it became bad countries there that we couldn't get into...well, and he was using...best thing they had in that day was casein glue and he was using casein glue to glue up these...boy he clamped them together positively on this whole thing when he got the top...the sides were hemmed in so they couldnt' go anywhere but boy he had these gillions of 1/4" pieces of metal and bolts...tightened up the bolts...until boy just pull that top thing down and that was the clamp and he would leave them in this thing for 3 months...to dry to,..and so he'd have a stack of them around in the various process and then he'd glue the riser on, he didn't glue the riser on all at once, he'd glue that on after the thing came out of it's first compression thing.  So it was pretty tough...and they were popping apart a lot, that casein just wasn't the...until the war came on there I think they didn't even get into  fonalic? glue until...and that was better than casein but then the epoxys didn't come until wartime I guess."

[Tox Collector]

Flint kemper, Do you want me to see if a scan will work and email the pages to you?

That is interesting info concerning South Bend and Hill.

[flint kemper]

Tox, that would be great. My e-mail is [email protected] I will get the name of the book that quote came from. It is a flyfishing book. Thanks