Very Old Longbow... Any thoughts??

[Larry m]

Picked this up recently and would like to know more about it. It appears to be very well thought out and made with care and was used for some time. You can see failure in the lower limb and attempted repair. Horn tips, with backset in the limbs. Belly to my untrained eye and sandwiched in lamination looks like osage. Backing and other lamination does not appear to be lemon wood or yew. I read somewhere a few of the older bowyers useing Ash or Elm in the limb?? All thoughts and opinions are truly appreciated.          

[Larry m]

[oldbohntr]

My guess is the backing is hickory, and the main limb lam is yew.  I've seen and owned a bunch of bows from this era, and never seen the extra lams in the middle, nor the metal arrow plate/wood shelf on yours.  Along with the backset in the limbs, and the configuration of the grip material, this is a truly unique old bow!!(of course, you knew that!) Actually, the horn nocks look kind of familiar, but I can't put a finger on where that comes from.  

Heck of a bow, Larry.  Good find!

[bamboo]

sure it isn't a 2-peice??
RREEAAL NICE FIND!!

[Rick Enos]

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY--MAY BE A TAKEDOWN.....

[Larry m]

Nope, definitely not a takedown. That also was my first thought but looking at the metal strikeplate it ends at the rest.
Tom
You may very well be correct on the wood. I own several yew and lemonwood longbows and an old Grumley Deer Slayer (osage) and was making an uneducated guess due to the coloration of the wood. I should probably get them down off the wall and take a closer look. (although with my old eyes I don't know if it would make a difference)
I was hoping some of the resident historians could provide some info. I'd love to know how old this bow is. I'm contemplating trying to get some pictures to longbow authority Mr. Hugh Soar although this may be too recent for his perspective. A great deal of effort went into the construction and design of this bow and I suspect there may be some nice history involved.

[Liquid Amber]

A couple things.

Most of the ELBs from the late 1800s found here were English made.  The English experimented with a variety of exotic hardwoods and a wide assortment of laminated bows were produced.  They rarely used osage.  The laminations on this bow are not unusual.

The handle wrap is representative of that era as well.

On the surface and without actually handling the bow I would say It could be from the late 1800s and English made.

The arrow strike plate and apparent reflex in the limbs are unusual.  Reflex in ELBs was typically induced by reflexing the limbs at the handle when spicing the limbs together.  It is extremely unusual to see an ELB with reflex that shows this side profile after being shot over a period of time.  This profile is typical of an ELB with string follow after being shot for a long time.

It is not unusual for bows of this age and era to be repaired and refinished.  In some cases the horn tips are replaced and reversed.  Horn tips are not very durable and deteriorate over the years and bugs and stuff crew them up.

Gene Wensel had an old bow and wanted to know if it could be one of the Thompson Brothers [story was it was obtained from Will].  I looked the photos over and said no, it had dips and I've never seen any of their bows or photos of their bows with dips.

Later I was able to handle this bow at the PBS Banquet in Nashville and quickly noticed the horn tips had been replaced and reversed.  The grasp on the back of the bow had been turn around and showed on the belly of the bow when the tips were reversed.  The grasp appeared to be a built up area with dips.

One with experience should easily be able to view the bow first hand and tell which way the bow has been shot without observing the tip orientation.

[Larry m]

Thank You Cliff!!
Great food for thought. If you were not so far away I would drive this over to let you have a very close up hands on look. Truly appreciate your knowledgeable insight...

[Liquid Amber]

The orientation of the laminations match with the horn tips' orientation IMO and if so, it exhibits a great amount of reflex in the unbraced profile.  To me that's the most interesting thing about this bow.  Who knows?  

I sure would like to hear Hugh Soars appraisal.

[Larry m]

Email attempt on it's way. Hopefully my inquiry can be worked into a no doubt busy schedule. Really would like to know more about this one!!!

[JavelinaHink]

Hi Larry
Here are two bows I picked up from a guy that lived in the Detroit area.
Yours has seminaries to them.
 The Board is dated 1939. The Takedown has a horn arrow shelf and one on the board has a metal one. The Takedown is just over 7 Ft. in length. The black leather handle wrap bow is Deflexed though and has metal horn nocks. These items came with metal tube quiver with Pop N Jay arrows and an arrow board that had a signed arrow from Nel’s Grumley which the arrow was taken off and sold on *bay awhile back.( around 8,900.00)  Hope the pictures help some. The Take Down Bow handle fit is very very hard to pop apart, takes all I can muster up to get it done.
Larry how long is your bow? Regards, Bill

If this is to many pic's please let me know
           [/IMG]IMG]             http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq170/mibowman/DSCN1908.jpg[/IMG]          
         

         
         
         
         
         
         

[JavelinaHink]

Here's some more pics

 
 
 
 
 
 

[Sal]

From the pictures, the color and grain of the bellywood matches what could be "beefwood", which was the old name for massarandauba, a tropical hardwood.  Bows made of beefwood are mentioned in the writings from the victorian era.  It also dovetails nicely with Cliff's research of Victorian English bows.  

That is, if its isn't the turkish oak as in the example above.

[Larry m]

Hi Bill and Sal
71" and it looks Bill like you have hit the nail on the head so to speak!! I just received a reply from Mr. Soar courtesy of Mr. Ingold from Primitive Archery Magazine and he pretty much sums up everything you have posted above. Your pictures and explanation of how they came about are a wonderful addition to the history. Mr. Soar questioned as to how it came to the "U. S. of A." and surmised that perhaps a Doughboy from the Great War might have brought it home as a souvenir. To quote Cliff, "Who Knows"? I have turned blue in the face several times since I picked it up trying to get it apart but will try again because now I'm very curious.
Thank You Much!!!!!!

[Larry m]

Some other items compliments of Mr. Soar.
"The laminated construction, reflex appearence, and handle arrangement were common in Belgian and French made bows of this era. This bow could date to the late nineteenth century or possibly a little earlier. The decoration at the end of the string nock is called a Continental feature.
Almost every French and Belgium town had an Archery Society in the 19th and 20th Centuries".
Neat Stuff for Sure!!
Thank You Mr. Soar