Help Me Tiller #1

[Whip]

I've never built a selfbow before.  I started on a stave a few years ago and chased a ring on the back, but have left it sit ever since.  I was unsure of what to do next so I figured doing nothing was safest.  Well, it's time that chunk of wood decides what it wants to do with the rest of its life - be a bow, or become firewood.  

There is a thread running now asking were the bow builders were.  I'm hoping they come out of the woodwork to give me some advice and see if we can get this thing shooting arrows.

Here is where I'm at right now.  The stave is shaped out, and I've got it bending to 50# @ 20" in this picture.  I think I know what I need to do next, but I'll ask the experts here to chime in and make sure I'm on the right track.
 

[Linc]

Whip, I'm no expert but you are coming along great with your first attempt IMHO. Left limb looks a bit stiff on the outer segment.I assume the left limb is going to be the lower limb?What is the current length?

[BamBooBender]

I agree with Linc. Was the left tip curved up a bit? It looks like it has a slight recurve.

[Whip]

The left limb is supposed to be the top limb.  Total length right now is 64".  If I understand it right the top limb should be a bit longer, and on this stick there were more knots on that end so I made that one the top.  

The left tip is a bit recurved - nothing I did, it is naturally that way.  There is a fairly big knot just a few inches out from the tip that is causing it.  Should I either try to take that out with heat or add a bit to the other limb to make them the same?

[Pat B]

Your tiller looks good so far. Both tips look a bit stiff. I usually leave the last 6" of each limb stiff. You are getting nice even bending right off of the handle area although the right limb could bend a bit more just off the handle.
   Take it slow and easy and you will have a shooter before you know it.  Nice work so far.   Pat

[Eric Krewson]

Right limb, too much bend about a foot in from the tip.

I am always pushing people to make and use a tillering gizmo. I am sure people getting tired of me posting a link but the darn thing really works.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=033419

[Traxx]

I believe,im gonna hafta go with Eric,on thisn.
Eric,
You only had to show that Gizmo once to Hook me.

[Whip]

Already on it Eric. Bet this is the fanciest one you've seen.  Made it up from a chunk of scrap that Dave Dwyer gave me for making knife handles with.
 

You're exactly right too.  According to the gizmo the right limb is bending too much past the halfway point.  I also think the left limb is too stiff out closer to the tip and in one small area about 10" out from the fade.

[Eric Krewson]

Now that's a GIZMO!

[John Scifres]

Here's how I see it.  Green means go, red means no.

 

[Walt Francis]

WOW, my GIZMO's aren't that perty!!!  I agree with Eric and John.
John, what editing program are you using?

[mmgrode]

John and Eric are right on.  Left limb is stiff and stay away from the red spot.  Not to complicate things, but in order to balance the limbs out the left limb(top limb) should be a bit weaker than the lower limb.  1/4" to 3/16" further to the string on my bows.

How did you end up dealing with the knot Joe?

[Whip]

The knot ended up not being a problem at all really.  I hadn't realized how much wood needed to be removed yet, and once I got at it I was able to remove the whole knot.  All that's left is a bit darker wood in that spot.

Here's where I ended the night.  Strung profile, and then one showing 50# @ 26".  If I'm seeing it right I need to work the right (lower) limb in the area after the fade.  

I can really tell that things move much quicker now.  Very little wood removal makes very noticable differences.  

 

 

[Holm-Made]

Nice job so far.  The right limb sure looks like it bends very nicely, maybe a little stiff near the handle.  I wouldn't touch the middle of the left limb.  The outer 10" of the left limb looks stiff.  

This is what I see.  Don't take my advice until some of the big self bow boys chime in though.  Chad

[NorthShoreLB]

Get rid of the stick, ...if it takes more than a couple of seconds to take the pictures your bow is taking unnecessary punishment being left drawn on that stick.

..a bit uneven, but looking pretty good so far

[Whip]

Thanks Manny, I hadn't realized that.  It does pretty much have to be on the stick to use Eric's gizmo though - do you just use that at a partial draw and adjust from there?
Thanks for the input.  I'm getting nervous about going to fast now, but still think I need to work on the right limb?

[George Tsoukalas]

LOL, Manny. You beat me to it. Whip, left limb needs to bend more nearer the handle. It is beginning to bend TOO much right at mid limb. Right limb looks pretty good. However, if you haven't hit full draw I would make all tiller corrections now from fades to mid limb.  Almost there. Looking good. Jawge

[Shaun]

Looking great Joe. Careful use of the scraper and remember to excersize the bow to let the change set in after each scraping. I like to start shooting with a short draw at this point. It really helps to have someone take a picture of the bow being drawn by you. Tiller tree does not always tell the whole story.

[Whip]

Alright - got it - left limb near the handle.  But since the left limb is already bending more than the right don't I need to also work the right to help it "catch up"?

[Shaun]

The tiller tree may not show upper vs lower limb work as well as the other use for the word "tiller", that is the brace height difference at the fades. Most often this is 1/8 to 1/4 inch more at the upper fade. Also, the tiller tree does not hold the bow exactly the same as your hand. A picture at hand draw or looking in a mirror will give a better view of the actual dynamic. Try these methods before trying to make it look balanced on the tree.