Vintage Values?

[monk]

I am totally new at the vintage stuff. What is a current, fair market value of a Fred Bear Signed A handle, almost all there (wood bears replaced w/metal bears from mag handle?), early 70's excellent shape 8/10?

[Whip]

Check the big auction site completed listings and you should find some that have sold.  The Trad History and collecting forum here is a good source of knowledgeable guys.  I know that wapiti792 here recently picked one up and could give you am idea.  I'd love to have one,  but could never justify the prove they seem to go for.  It is one of the most desirable bows out there!

[damascusdave]

There is no such thing as fair market value for collectible Bears these days...a standard 1960 Kodiak sold a while ago for over 700 dollars and a nice Kodiak Deluxe sold for just over 400 dollars...all depends on who is buying that particular day

DDave

[warpedarrow]

I have to agree with Dave.  It all depends on who is active in the market on any given day.  The maple sight window 1959 Kodiak selling for less than $500 just a couple of days ago is a good example.  That bow would have easily sold for double that amount a couple of years ago.

If a person is interested in building a nice collection, now is the time to buy some bows.

[Wade Phillips]

Originally posted by warpedarrow:
...The maple sight window 1959 Kodiak selling for less than $500 just a couple of days ago is a good example.  That bow would have easily sold for double that amount a couple of years ago...

warpedarrow -

The 56" Maple Sight Window 1959 Kodiak that sold 7 days ago, on 10/24/14, sold for $676, not "less than $500" as stated in the post immediately above.

$500 is 35% short of $676, we should try to be a little more accurate than 65%.

On the other hand, your advice is probably 100% accurate... "If a person is interested in building a nice collection, now is the time to buy some bows."

[warpedarrow]

Sorry Wade, I guess that I was remembering my last bid. I would have bid more but haven't had an income since July and I'm cutting back on my collecting until I find work.  I really would like a maple sight window '59.  I do have a '62 (I think) Grizzly with the MSW.  It has white glass and what appears to be a pewter coin. It is a nice looking bow but I am not a fan of the white glass.

[TonyW]

Have a hunch that the MSW 56" will not be sold anytime soon, and the "676" will have a "1" or a "2" in front of it when it does.

[warpedarrow]

Has the buyer made themselves known yet?  

I do hope that values recover the ground that has been lost in the past couple of years.  I have been telling the wife that the bow collection is part of my retirement investing.

[Wade Phillips]

Originally posted by warpedarrow:
Has the buyer made themselves known yet?  

After John got the bow, he posted photos of the 56", which completed his MSW triad. Check the thread titled...

     Da Bears...... of '59  

   http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=005617;p=2

[Wade Phillips]

Originally posted by warpedarrow:
I do hope that values recover the ground that has been lost in the past couple of years.  I have been telling the wife that the bow collection is part of my retirement investing.

While the value of many Archery Collectibles has declined greatly since the financial meltdown & recession, a few have actually increased.

It is doubtful that anyone can outguess the future values of any Archery Collectible, except of course, the rarest and most desirable top collectibles, which seldom seem to decline regardless of the financial situation.

It is important to remember that what you see on the auction sites is far from all the items that change hands between collectors. Many top items are private transactions and frequently the details of those exchanges are never known to others.

[papabear08]

I certainly wouldn't use bows or any collectible as a retirement vehicle. I was told this forty years ago when my wife and I started collecting antiques by a dealer "buy what you like and enjoy but not for profit." Bows don't earn interest or dividends and when you sell in twenty or so years you'll be damn lucky to break even if you make a profit when inflation is considered.
Yes there are some rare valuable pieces but most of the stuff is common. ( Wade you have all the rare ones)
I do not think we are going to see prices as in the past for several reasons and I see the same thing in the decoy market as I have done that longer than bows.
1st and foremost the young folks do not care about the old stuff or have the attraction we do because they grew up in a different time. My two grandsons are an example they want the latest and greatest. As we pass who are we boing to sell to??
Another reason is the internet. You have decades worth of production bows that were produced coming out of the walls and there's more supply than demand.
Al Reader lamented about where this was heading before he pasted and I believe he foresaw it coming. So enjoy your stuff but don't "invest" in it.

[warpedarrow]

I agree Papabear.  I started collecting to feed my own curiosity and appreciation for an era that I didn't participate in due to my young age and where I  lived.  There just wasn't much exposure to archery.  I do not know what flipped that switch in my brain that made old Bear bows attractive to me.  It wasn't a desire to make money at it because when you think it through as an investment, there just isn't a compelling reason for any great number of people to want to purchase old mass produced archery equipment, ergo, lousy investment. I have no desire to be an archery historian or to aquire ancient archery artifacts and those would be the items that could and should appreciate in value.  So, my thought is that my collecting is not a lot different than the guy that eats $5000 a year depreciation on a bass boat or drops a hundred dollars a week on green fees.  The money is spent but entertainment value was gained.

[papabear08]

Exactly Brad, everytime money gets in the way it F,,,,s things up. I'm upside down on things to but if a guy can come home and look at an item and enjoy it well what more can you ask.

[johnnyrazorhead]

papabear,warpedarrow and Wade,
 I couldn't agree more.I have felt the same way for most of my collecting years.Early on it seemed values could go through the roof.Everyone loves this stuff,or so I thought.After setting up my archery display at a few events that were NOT primarily made up of traditionalists,I realized that not everyone has an appreciation and/or love for the old stuff and the history it represents.I knew early on that anything I am going to keep,or add to my collection,will have to be done simply for the enjoyment I recieve from it.Of course there will always be the handful of others that enjoy the stuff as much as we do.But we've all seen which direction the archery collectible market has gone.My 56" MSW Kodiak is a perfect example.Thankful that I can still lokk at most all of my collection and smile,enjoying the history that it represents and not regretting the stuff as a good investment gone bad.

[warpedarrow]

Congrats on getting the 56" MSW, John.  I bid on it but could not get serious due to lack of an income at the moment.  Paying the property tax next month is more important than adding another bow to the collection.  I did not pick up on the fact that the 56" that you posted on the older thread was the same bow that just sold.  So if I understand correctly, you and Wade have all three and there is one other guy also.  I will have to research the msw's a bit and try to get up to speed on them.

[johnnyrazorhead]

Warpedarrow,
  That is correct as far as I know. There are only three known 56" MSW 1959 Kodiaks in collections as of today and complete the "tri-fecta" of all three lengths of MSW Kodiak's. Wade has one ,I believe Chuck Dougherty has one, and I now have the third. The MSW Kodiaks have always been one of the finest looking Bear bows ever made in my opinion. To have all three lengths,especially the elusive 56" model,is truly a collectors dream come true.Like many of us on this forum,I love the old Bears,the rare ones,and personally for me,the oddball ones. This bow kind of fits all those categories. I realize I was very fortunate to have been the lucky bidder on this one. With our economy the way it is,many of us just don't have the extra cash to spend on collectibles that we once did.I threw a bid out there and hoped to get lucky and I did. Every once in awhile,even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
 I'm sure another one will pop up.

[alaskabowhunter]

I still have my 56" MSW, cool bow especially after I screwed a site and quiver on it and painted it camo with some Krylon. I dug up an old compass and mounted it in the handle after I got the leather grip off.  The fast flight string really added performance to the little guy as well....now its ready for action....  

[Wade Phillips]

Gary -

The 40 year old advice that your received from the antique dealer, "buy what you like and enjoy but not for profit", is good sound advice for us collectors.

However, over the years there have been those who more closely fit the definition of "broker" or "dealer" as opposed to "collector"

Dealer - somebody whose business is buying and selling for a profit

Collector - somebody who accumulates objects for their interest, value, or beauty.

As collecting interests evolve, and our stations in life change, some true collectors let go of some items and may for a time seem to more closely resemble the definition of dealer rather than collector.

[papabear08]

Wade,
I guess I have and still do both. I have never stuck any household money in the stuff always needed to support my habit that way. So I am a Collector first Dealer second.

[Wade Phillips]

Gary -

At some point(s) most of us collectors do have to sell off items to

1. finance another purchase, and/or  

2. make space for additional items.

Many of us frequently have many extra items on hand as a result of upgrading or purchasing an entire group of items just to acquire one or a few desired pieces.

For the past several years, I have had so many extra items on hand that I have mostly procrastinated about beginning the process to dispose of the extras. Have sporadically had brief periods of liquidating some items over the past 13 years since retiring.

However, it always seems much easier to follow my tendency to "never do today, what you can put off till next year".